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Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:22 am

Shoju wrote:This bill is the epitome of bullshit.


I wonder, all my teacher friends favor it. Some even suggested tying attendance to housing.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Passionario » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:49 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I wonder, all my teacher friends favor it. Some even suggested tying attendance to housing.


Well, duh. They're the ones who will suddenly gain the power to sentence entire families to starvation and homelessness with a single flourish of a pen.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:57 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Shoju wrote:This bill is the epitome of bullshit.


I wonder, all my teacher friends favor it. Some even suggested tying attendance to housing.

Well, I'm going to speculate about that, so a disclaimer here that I may be completely off base and full of shit as I try to rationalize the thoughts of people I've never met...

I'm guessing that they have students that they know are able to learn, but that are completely unmotivated to do so. As a result, the teachers probably try really hard but ultimately fail in reaching those kids. I imagine that is a very frustrating predicament. Legislation that motivates the parents to motivate the kid to learn would be helpful, so it sounds like a good thing.

However, there's no doubt here that the ends don't justify the means, and by a long shot. First of all, it's simply unfair for all sorts of reasons that some have cited here and plenty of others. It establishes a precedent that a parent can be punished by the government based on their child's performance. Sure, it's initially targeted at folks receiving government money, but we all receive government benefits in some form. This is essentially a tax on the poor if their children don't perform well, it could just as easily be a tax on everyone based on their child's performance.

And think about what that would do to the parent/teacher relationship if the teacher essentially holds the power to fine the parent...yikes.

That also creates a new relationship of responsibility. If a teenager is caught drinking, should we also punish the parents? In the case of underage drinking the child is willfully breaking the law. A child that is failing in school, may be trying to learn, but simply not able to keep up with his/her peers...and we "fine" the parents for that? Think about how that can so easily be abused by government, it's chilling.

This law creates all sorts of significant problems as a side effect of one person being held accountable for the performance of another, which is really a fundamentally flawed concept. Then after all of those problems, I doubt this law would be effective anyhow, so all of that pain and almost no benefit. It's an utter stinker.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:15 pm

Passionario wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I wonder, all my teacher friends favor it. Some even suggested tying attendance to housing.


Well, duh. They're the ones who will suddenly gain the power to sentence entire families to starvation and homelessness with a single flourish of a pen.


At some of the schools I work at, the kids have assaulted teachers. Not just long ago, one ended up being flown to a big medical complex with a broken skull, so...

5th graders are going around yelling obscenities, throwing books at the teacher and such, and the teacher is pretty much defenseless on this, with little support from the principals...

Not saying the idea is not draconian to some degree... but these parents just unload their crotchfruits and expect the teachers to raise the kids for them, while sucking on the teat of the government...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:42 pm

But as I said, this has ramifications that go well beyond those kids and their parents, and I don't think it would work anyhow. It's certainly not justified because the school system isn't properly dealing with those kids now. Good grief, if the school system is allowing shit like that to go on, the LAST thing you should want to do is increase that system's power and authority.

I'm all for making sure folks are not taking advantage of their government assistance, but basing that assistance on the performance of their child isn't the answer. It doesn't even make sense.

Honestly Klaud, it surprises me that this idea doesn't flat out revolt you. It's text book social conservative republican ideology. The same shit that limited gov't conservatives try to distance themselves from.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Amirya » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:00 pm

Plan B loses age restriction

The part of this article that kills me:

"When these are right out there with the bubble gum, they're going to be part of the date rape cocktail," said Karen Brauer, president of Pharmacists for Life.


Plan B and bubblegum = date rape? What the fuck?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:31 pm

Fridmarr wrote:But as I said, this has ramifications that go well beyond those kids and their parents, and I don't think it would work anyhow. It's certainly not justified because the school system isn't properly dealing with those kids now. Good grief, if the school system is allowing shit like that to go on, the LAST thing you should want to do is increase that system's power and authority.

I'm all for making sure folks are not taking advantage of their government assistance, but basing that assistance on the performance of their child isn't the answer. It doesn't even make sense.

Honestly Klaud, it surprises me that this idea doesn't flat out revolt you. It's text book social conservative republican ideology. The same shit that limited gov't conservatives try to distance themselves from.


Oh yeah, it does, but at the same time I see why the teachers support the idea.

It's also the same reason why I didn't follow up with the PPR test to become a teacher myself, and why my mom retired from teaching after 35 yrs.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:47 pm

Amirya wrote:Plan B loses age restriction

The part of this article that kills me:

"When these are right out there with the bubble gum, they're going to be part of the date rape cocktail," said Karen Brauer, president of Pharmacists for Life.


Plan B and bubblegum = date rape? What the fuck?

While I don't really agree with what she said, she wasn't saying anything remotely close to that. She was saying that those that spike a woman's drink to rape them, will now include this in the drink. It is a really dumb comment, but she wasn't making a link between bubble gum and rape.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:20 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Amirya wrote:Plan B loses age restriction

The part of this article that kills me:

"When these are right out there with the bubble gum, they're going to be part of the date rape cocktail," said Karen Brauer, president of Pharmacists for Life.


Plan B and bubblegum = date rape? What the fuck?

While I don't really agree with what she said, she wasn't saying anything remotely close to that. She was saying that those that spike a woman's drink to rape them, will now include this in the drink. It is a really dumb comment, but she wasn't making a link between bubble gum and rape.


Not to be horribly pedantic or anything but, would that even work? Does the drug rely on a base digestive system release rate or will it work just as well if you absorb the entire thing immediately?

wonder if any pharmacologists read this board...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:15 am

I have no idea to be honest, but I have a hard time buying that even if it did work, the lack of access to it is what is keeping some douchebag from attempting to rape someone. Something tells me that they'd either wear a condom, or figure out a way to get it now, even with the prescription requirement. It's not like these folks are particularly concerned about laws.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:04 am

I can find details, but basically yeah - it should work that way.

Basically it's a super-dose of the hormones found in normal birth control pills. So taking it shortly before sex should have it work just fine. Unless there's already a fertile egg in the uterus, in which case it wouldn't be very effective. Of course, there's really not much you can do in a case like that. There are a (very) few anti-implantation drugs, but those are controlled and only available by prescription. I don't see very many of them in my line of work and only hear about it rarely. Anyone able to afford them (as I'm pretty sure they aren't covered under any health insurance, and they're relatively new, maybe 2-3 years on the market) can likely afford a long-term option like an IUD.

If anything, it might provide more evidence against someone to convict of first degree rape in cases like this. If they can find the pharmacy where the person bought the plan B beforehand, they'll have video evidence and probably credit card receipts showing that the crime was premeditated, which could lead to a higher conviction rate and sentence length. Silver linings, etc...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:38 am

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/10/glenn_b ... mmigrants/

Part racist, part hypocritical, part amusing and part facedesk.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Fridmarr wrote:http://boingboing.net/2013/04/07/why-men-and-everyone-shoul.html


What about outside gaming industry?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/0 ... 45033.html
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Some of the stuff that happened in the article I'd expect it from the US, not Canada!


I'm still upset about CNN's first comments about the Steubenville case once the verdict was given was to say about these young men had their lives ruined... just thinking about that makes... ugh...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:20 pm

Fridmarr wrote:But as I said, this has ramifications that go well beyond those kids and their parents, and I don't think it would work anyhow. It's certainly not justified because the school system isn't properly dealing with those kids now. Good grief, if the school system is allowing shit like that to go on, the LAST thing you should want to do is increase that system's power and authority.

I'm all for making sure folks are not taking advantage of their government assistance, but basing that assistance on the performance of their child isn't the answer. It doesn't even make sense.

Honestly Klaud, it surprises me that this idea doesn't flat out revolt you. It's text book social conservative republican ideology. The same shit that limited gov't conservatives try to distance themselves from.


Thinking more about it, I was thinking of a compromise. You really don't remove assistance to the families, but you do reduce it by a set percentage, conversely... if the kid does really well, you reward the family by increasing their assistance by a set percentage.
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