Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests Here)

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:50 am

Klaud, I like you a lot. A whole lot actually.

But, SERIOUSLY, you HAD to ask us for opinions on your Stamina level while NOT wearing your USUAL STAMINA trinkets? :lol:

I'll just leave that for you to use:
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:53 am

I forgot I was not wearing it, ok? :? :oops:

There, that should do it.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:27 am

Yeah, you'll be fine.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Gab » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:42 am

Your health is fine. IIRC I was 507 item level with the same trinkets (although my DMC was 2/2) and similar gemming priority (haste). I was good up to pre nerf Megara, where we had a little trouble with tank deaths, although a lot of that is because we have had to pick up 3 "new" healers for this tier...

Like Segara said, nearly everything dangerous is heavily telegraphed/predictable. Triple Puncture, Snapping Bite, Talon Rake, Arterial Cut etc... So ShoR and CD usage is much more important than reaching some magical stamina threshold.

Curious, why are you gemming Quick eyes though. You'd get better results gemming Solid eyes and just regular Quicks considering secondary eyes don't get the increased MOP itemization weight.

Solid Eye: 480 (2x "normal" stam gem)
Solid River's Heart: 240

Quick Eye: 480 (1.5x "normal" haste gem)
Quick Sun's Radiance: 320

If you swapped out two of your Forceful's and replaced them with Solid eyes and then replaced the Quick eyes with Quick sun's you'd be looking at a 720 stam increase that would only cost you 640 haste.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:40 am

That's the thing, I was gemmed mostly stamina before, but I wanna try something out for next week vs horridon, I noticed the adds were not sticking to me as much as I would like them to, and I aint talking about the ones in door 3 that go all over the place.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:28 am

Adds on door 3 are random fixate. Focus on the warlords.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:57 pm

Klaudandus wrote:I aint talking about the ones in door 3 that go all over the place.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:11 pm

Image

No idea then :-p
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:33 pm

=P
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby ulushnar » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:47 am

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/l ... lla/simple

After 2-3 weeks running LFR as Ret, and having fixed outstanding issues with my internet connection, I'm ready to give raid tanking a go. To that end with the aid of AMR (with some modification of the Stamina weight), I've regemmed, enchanted and forged my gear towards haste-based tankage. I've obviously not been able to get a decent tanking weapon yet, although I've still got the second half of MGV and HoF to run this week. Am I going to be embarrasing myself if I try to tank the ToT instances like this?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schroom » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:49 am

Hi, we are starting HMs ToT tonight and I'm quite of undecided.

at the moment I go for an allround-set of Stamina/CoHa means: I gem
Red: Exp
Yellow/Blue: sta+Ha

usually I run with the Ji-kun trinket reforged into haste and "Lei Shen's Final Orders" NM.

here is my armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/z ... m/advanced (don't mind the Loa-Shen trinket imagine Lei Shen's final Orders in here)


now my question is this. for the HMs should I rather stay as I am, go to full out Hastegems and use stamina trinkets or should I got full out stamina with gems/trinkets and so on?

PS: doing 10 man btw
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby daishan » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:48 am

For Jin I don't think it matters which gearing strat you use, though I was struggling to make the most of my dps without pulling aggro back while off tanking in the water, ended up turning RF off and on.
On Horridon it's all down to SotR timing if your on the boss, get that right and there's no need to have more than 700k fully buffed (I ran with haste/armour elixirs as uasual).
It's a little hard for me to double check on my phone but are you sure using exp/haste hybrids wouldn't allow for more efficient reforges?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schroom » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:02 am

daishan wrote: are you sure using exp/haste hybrids wouldn't allow for more efficient reforges?


instead of? the pure Exp gems? maybe... if you mean the haste/sta gems, I just like stamina ^^ it saved my lifes several times when I thought o sh*** damn down to 3% healt -> LoH instead of being dead :>
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby daishan » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:08 am

Ye ment in the red sockets, should allow you to move more mast/avoidance into haste I think.
Same as you I like a little stam in blue sockets, plus it's hard enough getting under hit cap without gemming it.

Edit:
I've not done many pulls on Tortos and Ji'kun yet but feel Tortos for sure and maybe Ji will want more stam than I run, depending on which tactic we use. I've been thinking Tortos might even benefit from an avoidance set with 8 bats up for a good % of the fight.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Schroom » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:15 am

mh have to try. I just went to ask mr robot (which I rarely use.. I prefer other sources) to double check and they also suggest full Exp gems. I remember doing what you mean about 2-3 weeks ago and I ended up having to reforge haste into exp. (especially after replacing the ji-kun trinket, I'm waiting for Horridon and lei Shen to be nice and give me their trinkets)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby daishan » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:21 am

I like AMR but often find I can squeeze out a little more of the stats I want by gemming by hand then using reforger lite, make sure to hit the show button several times as it doesn't always get it perfect first time.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:51 am

Seapking of which: I'm currently balls to the walls with Stam, but I'm wondering about shifting priority slightly to haste (haste gem for yellow, haste/exp for red and ahste/stam for blue). BTW, we're progressing in 25 men, now at Iron Qon.

Worth it?

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:03 am

is it safe to assume that the cloak to get from valor points is the haste/mastery one?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:23 am

Yeah, the other is dodge/hit
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Hayt » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:01 am

Hi Everyone

Long time lurker and I find myself in need of a quick reality check (or a full fledged restructuring of perspective :/ ) because the haste/control build is sexy but also not in my comfort zone theory-wise.

I am MT for my guilds 2nd 10 man group and never do 25m content....mostly because we are an empty server and 2-night casual raiders.

My darling: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/b ... t/advanced

I am trying to follow the control/haste method and have a deep dread that I am just doing it all wrong. The fact that my entire guild does not seem to agree/accept that haste is valid for us does not help my nerves.

Anyways - my three questions are

Am I hurting myself by using haste instead of haste/stam?
Am I hurting myself by not focusing on exp 15% hard cap?
Am I asking the right questions?

Thank you for your time!
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:22 am

Hello there and welcome aboard!

You've been mentionning 10 man and I wanted to ask an extra question (so, you could indeed ask a better one, but we can't answer it for you):
What is killing your raid right now? Is it the enrage timer, or is it tank death? Or, to a lesser extent, other player's deaths where one of the "source events" was a dangerous tanking situation - like dipping low on Horridon and 3-4 seconds later losing a DPS to Jalak's AoE.

Theck has been pretty active about your precise problem recently on Sacred Duty, and the basic gist is:

If you want to ease your healer's life more, go for more stamina. When you're satisfied or can't push much further, you can consider any secondary stat good for you, with hit/expertise leading the pack (so, yes, expertise hard cap is really good). Haste is the weakest on TDR and average at best on spikes, but offsets its weakness with the control and DPS it provides, while Mastery is very strong on control, and Dodge/Parry being strong for pure TDR.

If you instead want to shorten a boss fight (which is incidentally helping your healers, to a lesser extent), it's reasonable to find a Stamina plateau you're comfortable with, and then focus on capping hit and expertise, then move on to haste.

As to why haste helps us so much - it's all in Sanctity of Battle. Our main HoPo generators are affected by haste. More Haste -> more HoPo -> more ShotR -> less damage. The double whammy is that the HoPo system makes that extra defense available on demand. The triple whammy is that haste increases ou DPS considerably, and as you may have noticed, a good tank's DPS is not weak by any stretch of the imagination (we can thank Vengeance for that), reducing fight times, and by extension, reducing the damage intake and amount of risky situations.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:31 am

Slightly dumb question. Is the shadopan expertise trinket a good choice to get?

I need to spend some vp, and i refuse to buy gloves/pants
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Hayt » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:20 am

Sagara wrote:Hello there and welcome aboard!

You've been mentionning 10 man and I wanted to ask an extra question (so, you could indeed ask a better one, but we can't answer it for you):
What is killing your raid right now? Is it the enrage timer, or is it tank death? Or, to a lesser extent, other player's deaths where one of the "source events" was a dangerous tanking situation - like dipping low on Horridon and 3-4 seconds later losing a DPS to Jalak's AoE.


Hi And thank you!

I tend to be the last person alive when my group wipes and have even had a couple of first-kills where it was just me and 2 dps left alive(Tank healer joygasm). My main healer has told me I am extremely easy to heal compared to my monk counterpart except for 'random times'; which, after reading Theck's recent analysis of SS, I believe to be the times I experimented with Eternal Flame.

So I guess the main reason for group wipes is low dps and tactical failures; however it has always felt irresponsible to me to cast blame on others instead of trying to improve my own character/play.


I also feel like my tank DPS is way below par except on certain fights where we tankadins get to shine on all the meters.....but I believe that to be poor play on my part rather than a gearing question.

I hope I answered your question effectively. Thanks for help :)

Edit: I also have the same Q as Klaud since I have two stam trinkets and feel like I could replace one of them to get the last bits of exp I need.
Edit 2: sentence structure
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:42 am

Klaudandus wrote:Slightly dumb question. Is the shadopan expertise trinket a good choice to get?

I need to spend some vp, and i refuse to buy gloves/pants



I use it atm in my default tank set up. I like it, but others don't. so it's really up to you.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Zothor » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:09 pm

First, if you need to dump VP... get the cape!! Haste/mastery "dps" cape is outstanding for tanking.

There is a tipping point where the ilvl jump is so high that yes, you should switch to an expertise DPS trinket... but it's not obvious that tipping point exists yet.

There is, from what I can tell, little reason for any tank to not running double-stam trinkets 95% of the time (and yes, as I say this my armory isn't doing so). Stamina trinkets are weird when it comes to item budget: an equal level stamina trinket has 50% more stamina than an equal level secondary stat trinket. So your 476 Relic has almost exactly the same Stamina as your 522 expertise trinket.

But, I need more expertise, you say. Get it elsewhere: either by enchanting your gloves for expertise (so many people miss this option!) or by switching gems. Because when you trade an equal ilvl stamina trinket for expertise, you lose 1/3 of the stamina in itemization budget... but when you trade a stamina (240) gem for expertise, you GAIN 50% of that in expertise (320). Which is bananas, but is currently how the game is built. Gemming is one of the least efficient ways to add stamina, and trinkets are basically the best way to do it. Too bad the Lei Shen trinket is going to be a pain in the butt to get for most people.

I don't think you need to be gemming for Expertise though, especially not straight red expertise. Your gear level is plenty high that an optimal reforge should be able to hit the hit and hard expertise caps pretty accurately; are you using ReforgeLite or Ask Mr. Robot to do those calculations? I personally swear by Reforgelite because I like my numbers to be in-game, but AMR works well for that process if you're more comfortable with the website.

Finally, a word of caution: you suggest that YOU'RE not sure that you're doing control-haste right. If you mean you're not sure that the build is viable and pragmatic, let us assure you that it is. But there is a huge caveat: you have to be running your priorities optimally and button mashing like a champ to make it worthwhile. Haste builds are all about shortening your GCD so you get more holy power generation, but that means if you start pushing your holy power generators back you're undermining your own build. If you're confident with your rotational flow, rock the haste. If you're not, there's no shame in Mastery. It's still pretty good these days.

Also, I dig the Xmog. I was pairing that exact weapon/shield combo until I upgraded both last week, because I keep ending up with the weirdo dark looking DK-set-lookalike pieces... but I digress.


TLDR: Stamina trinkets are awesome; drop stamina gems for expertise if you need to drop stam. Hit/Exp hardcap before you stack haste. Don't forget expertise enchants. Haste/mastery cape is awesome.
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