Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests Here)

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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:14 am

Don't forget you can get 960 Expertise from the two JC gems. You might also find that Long Arm of the Law gets you faster movement when you need it; that way you don't lose your run speed bonus when you use WoG or ShoR.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby econ21 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:58 am

I'm sitting on about 3k valor before the patch, but starting to wonder if I should spend half of it upgrading the VP stamina trinket.

The primary concern is wasting valor in week 2 of the new tier. In week 1, there's a SP-A neck available at neutral. But then to get to friendly, you have to kill a boss and there's a suggestion LFR will open two weeks later, rather than one week later. That means if I go into the patch with 3k valor, spend 1250 but can't kill a boss in week 2, I'll effectively waste 750 valor.

A secondary consideration is that there is only 1 stamina trinket in 5.2, so getting the 489 one up to 497 might mean it sees some use for quite a while. (I like the mastery on use feature, as well as the stamina).
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Gab » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:35 am

Upgrading the trinket is not a bad idea, considering how powerful the on use is.

You can technically use the trinket 14 seconds before HA and your ShoR will still benefit from the mastery all the way through the end of the HA, assuming you get a buffed SotR up with HA and don't let the buff expire. That's 30-40+ seconds, depending on your haste, of buffed ShoR which isn't too shabby. Even if you don't game it, it's still a really solid trinket.

Keep in mind, if there is trash before the first boss, you might be able to hit friendly with trash runs. So you might not end up needing to "waste" any VP if you go that route.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby econ21 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:09 am

Gab wrote:Keep in mind, if there is trash before the first boss, you might be able to hit friendly with trash runs. So you might not end up needing to "waste" any VP if you go that route.


Yeah, it's a nice trinket. I was silly to upgrade some tier pieces rather than it, on reflection.

On MMO Champion, people said you only get to 5999/6000 (neutral) on trash.

The only uncertainty in my mind is whether LFR opens after one week or two. Blizzard said they'd announce the schedule shortly before the patch. I guess they really mean shortly.


EDIT: Raid schedule says 1st wing of LFR opens after one week, not two.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:38 am

Is this the best item to buy after the neck?
http://www.wowhead.com/item=95141
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:45 am

I bought http://www.wowhead.com/item=95140

The crit rating can be reforged to Expertise or Hit, and 645 Haste speaks for itself IMO.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:03 am

I don't know... I'd rather have two good stats than one better and half a good one - especially now that I'm hit/exp capped and almost fighting out of it.
Both sound about right honestly.
Related question: Shado-pan DPS trinket: yay or meh? I'm more of the "meh" approach, at least for progression, further complicated by expertise capping becoming very annoying without it.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby daishan » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:14 am

With the standard haste/control AMR stat weights the haste/crit ring comes out on top and it's what I bought for my 2nd piece.
I really can't decide about the trinkets either, it's mostly the 75 sec icd that puts me off the dps one, looks like it'll be fairly low uptime compared with the will haste trinket I have atm.
I'm thinking I'll wait till I'm honored (hopefully early next week) and get the haste cloak as that looks like bis for normal modes even though the raid drops have sockets (not counting thunderforged).
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:40 am

Well, the only reason it's really that high on the list is because Exp/Hit is valued so high. On the long run, we're going to have an easier time capping, so the relative value of exp/hit would tank (one of the reason that DPS trinket suck so bad in my eyes)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby theckhd » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:59 am

daishan wrote:With the standard haste/control AMR stat weights the haste/crit ring comes out on top ...

That's not strictly the case. It depends on a few factors. For example, using "absolute" ranking the Loop (tanking ring) will always beat the Band (DPS ring). They're certainly close, but the tanking ring should be numerically superior given those stat weights in an absolute ranking. Even though the Band has more haste than the Loop has mastery, it also means you get more hit/exp from the reforged dodge on the Loop than you do from the Crit on the Band. And the leftover dodge has a reasonably significant value as well.

If you switch it to relative ranking, then the Band can sneak ahead (it does for my setup as well, in fact, but not by very much). But keep in mind that this will fluctuate from player to player. A player that's farther from the hit/exp caps will find the Loop superior, a player that's dancing around the caps may find the Band superior because it wastes less hit/exp (smaller increment through reforging lets you optimize around the cap better under constraints).

I'm also pretty sure their relative rankings use a "quick optimize" algorithm rather than the full optimization you get from the "Optimize" button, otherwise it would take considerably longer to load up relative rankings. And their quick-optimize algorithm is notoriously inaccurate (as in, I can still beat their full optimization algorithm by hand sometimes, and I can almost always beat their quick-optimizes). So when one item comes out a hair ahead of another (like, <100 points), it's hard to say that either is better with any degree of certainty.

In any event, you shouldn't be ranking items purely based on the AMR score anyway. The "relative" AMR ranking optimizes around your current gear, and thus values hit and expertise at full value on these lists. That's fine if you want to know "what's the best upgrade right now." It isn't a very accurate reflection of how good the item is over time though. For example, if you're way over expertise and hit caps, it might suppress the hit/exp item because it can't make use of all of that rating. But if you know that you're going to replace a few expertise items within a few weeks, and will need those stats, then that isn't a smart long-term strategy. Similarly for the reverse - if you're going to gain a lot of expertise itemization in the near future, then that hit/exp might not be as valuable as it is in your current gear.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby daishan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:29 am

Ye good points.
I guess from a pure tanking standpoint the tank ring is ever so slightly better, but if you go ret very often or value haste even slightly more than the standard stat weights the haste/crit ring may be better use of your vp.
And if you put even a small value on your dps crit would become a non zero weighted stat, not that I'm suggesting any tank should take crit just that it's not quite completely useless.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Shaera » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:51 pm

Quick query.
Tonight we got council down and the agi weapon http://www.wowhead.com/item=94759 dropped. I initially took it to wind up our enhance shammy as he was rested tonight, however my previous weapon was http://www.wowhead.com/item=86130 which was upgraded 2/2. Now this is almost 1k dps weapon increase even though its clearly an agi weapon. What are peoples thoughts on using it? I lose some Ap through lack of Str but the hit/expertise are easily recovered.

I have also went haste/control at the moment but it feels very squishy at times. I got one shot by horridon's War God Add tonight 100-0%, how are people finding the overall damage taken in ToT?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Gab » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:32 pm

Shaera wrote:Quick query.
Tonight we got council down and the agi weapon http://www.wowhead.com/item=94759 dropped. I initially took it to wind up our enhance shammy as he was rested tonight, however my previous weapon was http://www.wowhead.com/item=86130 which was upgraded 2/2. Now this is almost 1k dps weapon increase even though its clearly an agi weapon. What are peoples thoughts on using it? I lose some Ap through lack of Str but the hit/expertise are easily recovered.

I have also went haste/control at the moment but it feels very squishy at times. I got one shot by horridon's War God Add tonight 100-0%, how are people finding the overall damage taken in ToT?


At 506 ilvl raiding 10 man I found tank damage to be pretty low until you get to Megaera, as long as you are using cooldowns and SotR appropriately. From my experience War God didn't really do all that much damage... maybe you got clipped by a stomp or something?

As far as the weapon goes and assuming two pure haste gems, one from the black prince socket, you'd be gaining.

588 Agi
243 Crit

298 Stam
405 Mastery
642 Haste
And a lot of weapon dps.

In exchange for:

529 Str
326 Expertise
368 hit

Seems like a worthwhile trade off to me as long as you aren't putting yourself out of reach of hit/expertise caps. If you don't have access to Eye of the Black Prince It's a bit closer but probably still worth it.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fenris » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:24 am

Once again to the happy moments of a tier change...

Downed Horridon for the second time,rolled a coin,got the helm out of it.

Obviously,i was hoping for the back.

But now that i have it...

a)Use it.That means breaking T14-4p bonus.Doesn't seem that good an idea at the moment...But sooner or later that will happen anyway...
b)....so,keep it for the future?TBH,there seem to be better off-set helms dropping farther in (and then there is the set helm),but that's hoping in a kind of luck that i never have
c)Shard it and sell the new-blood-spirit while they go for obscene amounts of gold (or maybe keep it if there is anything worth crafting this tier)




And,on the sides,if anyone can exlain me why after 3 months the control/mastery setting on askmrrobot keeps reforging everything i have into haste,the same way the control/haste does,i'd be grateful....
Makes kind of hard to use it as a quick reference guide when i have to go and do the math myself anyway.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Dinuvian » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:13 pm

Hello folks!

I've been perusing these forums since Cataclysm, and this is my first post (ashamed!). Thanks for getting me through Dragon Soul!

I'm looking for some expert advice on both my stats/gems etc, and also on a bit of a larger picture. I'm the raid leader of a 10man team. We raid twice a week and are pushing through normal content. We were 10/18 when 5.2 came out and we got Jin'Rokh down on the first night (very proud moment). What I'd like to do is push past normals and get into heroics. Not as fast as the hardcore folks, but I dont want to slack.

I've always used Ask Mr Robot, and I've seen a few threads recently that made it obvious that I severely under-utilize it, as I've never messed with stat weights. So you'll see a lot of STA gems on my gear.

I want this to change.

Any advice, tips, critique etc are very welcome. I'm looking to push to the next level and help my team do the same. If you have suggestions for stat weights for ask mr robot, that would be great too (or if you think it's not good to use, let me know that too).

Thanks guys! Here is a link to my armory profile:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/i ... l/advanced
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby econ21 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:24 pm

Dinuvian wrote:I've always used Ask Mr Robot, and I've seen a few threads recently that made it obvious that I severely under-utilize it, as I've never messed with stat weights. So you'll see a lot of STA gems on my gear.


AMRs weights were set by Theck, the guru of tankadin theorycrafting who moderates the advanced training forum here, so I don't think you'll find much criticism of them here. They've been revised somewhat for 5.2.

Last I checked, they did tend to recommend stamina gems as that's what Theck argues is the best survival stat for us. I've been largely following that advice and am happy with it - I like the security the extra HPs provide, I think it helps me survive some of the mistakes that tend to kill tanks (whether it's me not popping a CD or a heal not coming).

There is a case for haste gemming for extra dps or more control, and many 10 man raiders go for that instead.

I think it's ultimately up to you to make a judgement on based on your experience - I've not seen decisive arguments either way. It's usually a case of "I don't need the stamina - the damage is trivial" vs "I get hit like a ton of bricks, more stamina is great". As such, it will depend on the content you are tanking and also the skill of your raid group.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Dinuvian » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:24 pm

I saw a great response by Theck on a somewhat.. hostile... thread. Made me a lot more comfortable with I've been doing.

I may try reducing the stamina a little since I'm in normals and see how it feels. In the meantime, I plan on trying to understand some of this math you guys have in here :)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:08 am

A good "trick" if you don't want to limit the amount of stam you get is to set a cap on stam in the parameters, while retaining Theck's stat balance. It especially works wonders 10-men where you don't need *that* much stamina.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Uronaldo » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:55 am

Hi everybody so my guild is starting heroics this week and we probably going for the first 2 boss tortos and jinkun
Horridon i will probably be tanking him the whole time resetting stacks with DS or BOP.
Tortos im the bat tank usually
So i would like to have some advice what should I change on my gear specially gems related.
So far im going with haste build making sure to help with the dps and had no problems at all about dying. I know how to control cds plus SotR to keep a higher uptime during fights. My dps so far been around 80k or more depends on fights.
Should I drop some haste to get more stamina in my gear. My valor points this week im buying the back from the new rep the haste mastery one. Or in case i need more stamina im getting the shado-pan trinket.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/u ... lol/simple here is my armory
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Jadhzia » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:36 am

Hello,

I'll probably be stuck at Friendly with Shado-Pan Assault for a while, so I'm wondering what my next best Valor item would be. Here is my armory.

- Loop of the Shado-Pan Assault is the most obvious choice, replacing either Band of Bursting Novas or Seal of the Bloodseeker.

- I'm a bit confused with the new trinkets. I'm not too excited by Steadfast Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault... It would be fine to replace my old Relic of Niuzao: I'm doing only 10-man normal mode, so trading Stamina for Mastery would be okay. But what about Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault? The static Expertise bonus is nice, but I'm not sure a Strength proc would be really useful...

My gut feeling would be to take the ring first, to replace the Expertise / Dodge one. Any advice would be appreciated. :)
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Taeron » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:29 am

With the chest tier token... would it be a lot better to pick up a retribution piece or would it be just as fine going for the tank piece (parry/dodge, sigh) and get the 2 piece bonus?

I mean... stats on retri piece seem optimal for our current situation but I feel... wrong, picking up a retri piece.

Dilemma...
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Fetzie » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:03 pm

I'm going to get the ret chest when I get a token.
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:04 pm

Is my stamina acceptable for 10N ToT?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... dus/simple
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Sagara » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Yeah. Jin'Rok and Megaera tend to hit a bit hard, but everything else up to Dumuru mainly use a "huge nuke incoming!" mechanic that ShotR and/or cooldowns can handle.
You may run into trouble on Megaera, but that's not a given, and my attempts on her 10M version were pre-nerf, so it's not *that* certain.
Maybe you could lay your hand on a Niuzao trinket, just in case?
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Re: Gear Check/Advice Thread (All Specific Advice Requests H

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:33 am

I do have it, just normally only use it on raids. For everything else, I use my str trinket just for lulz
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