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Prot Paladin Stat weights

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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby daishan » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:33 am

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... n/advanced
As you can probably see from that I like haste as a 10 man raider, all of my prog kills have been done with that kind of setup plus haste and armour elixirs bar empress where I have a stam flask to make 6 windblades a little safer.
Theck has it spot on though, I'm not going haste because I don't want more stam, it's just that in 10 man my dps is a very sizeable % of total raid dps, and the extra battle healer procs on the fights we 2 heal don't hurt either.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Katharsis » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:33 am

Theck..
I have been messing around with stat weights in AMR for a while now, and I cannot seem to find something that suits me personally (maybe I am just crazy but...). My guild only does 10N raiding, and stam on gear is pretty much all I use (minus socket bonuses and a few enchants etc). Haste, is seems, has gotten me to a point where my rotation hits a lull and I an just doing white hits for (what feels like) about 6-8 seconds. Is there a break point for haste that can cause/solve this? If so, could you assist me in coming up with some weights that would/could specifically help me?

Edit: Especially with 5.2 coming today! Thanks!
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby theckhd » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:44 am

You shouldn't ever be getting 6-8 seconds of empty space in your rotation. Ever. Crusader Strike has a 4.5-second cooldown, so even if you had nothing else, you'd be casting something every 3 GCDs.

Sanctity of Battle reduces spell cooldowns with haste, so at high haste levels your GCD utilization doesn't change significantly, everything just happens faster. If you cast CS-J-AS-CS-Cons-J-CS-HW-SS- with 0 haste, you'll cast exactly the same sequence with 20% haste, you'll just do it 20% faster. Instead of 9*1.5=13.5 seconds, it will take 11.25 seconds to go through that entire sequence.

Do you have a parse that I can look at? That might help identify what's causing you to see such large gaps.

As far as stat weights, I posted some suggestions on the AMR forums to mimic the different gear strategies I've outlined in my blog posts.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Katharsis » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:48 pm

Thanks! I will see what I can do on the parses.. I know the gaps werent THAT long, they just felt that long.

As far as gearing/stats, most of my gear is actual "tank" gear, simply because we have 1-2 plate DPS in our raids, and have only managed to pick up a few haste/(w/e) pieces...not that that should really matter overall for my issues...
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Redleg » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:31 pm

I'm kind of curious how many people are using AMR. There's currently a thread on the official Paladin forums where there's a large number of people saying that AMR has no value, should never be used, etc. There's a few of us trying to say that if used properly, and adjusted for your situation, it's a useful tool.

I bring it up here because Theck's name has been tossed out a few times in the topic, and it seems to at least somewhat relate to this topic here since people are basically saying that not only the default weights terrible, but even if you adjust them you are wrong to use AMR, whether it's for tanking or dps.

I'm a hobbyist programmer and I love tools that make my life easier. I also understand that when using a tool, you have to always make sure you understand the tool and that it's working for you, not you constantly working around it. Just grabbing a new tool that you don't understand how to use can create more problems for you in the long run. That being said, I find tools like AMR to be quite helpful personally, and I usually tweak the weights a bit for my own needs. For instance I only ever tank LFR currently, so my needs are different from a heroic progression raider.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:04 pm

Holy cow people are angry in that thread. I don't know that it's a "great many people" so much as it's a couple really, really angry folks. It's like AMR shat in their cheerios or something.

I use AMR to get a bead on efficiently hitting 7.5hit/15xpt. Everything else I tool by hand (specifically stam and haste).
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby chace86 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:14 pm

AMR seems to give me odd results if I do not have the "Exclude Special Metagem" slot checked. Not sure if that is intended or not. I am using the Control/Mastery strategy. It tells me to reforge haste from mastery. If I set it to Control/Mastery, it reforges and gems everything haste, without reaching hit cap or hard expertise cap (even with the option "Force to hit and expertise cap" enabled).

My armory: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/ ... roletarian
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Fetzie » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:22 am

Tools are as bad as their user. If the user doesn't know how to use it, or uses the tool the wrong way, then they won't get the right results.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Fenrìr » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:07 am

I use it and adjust it for my own personal haste values, sort of like Fuzzy, it's just a guide to hit/exp caps. I used to use Chardev as it allowed me a lot more freedom without all the BS AMR tries to feed me.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Ironshield » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:32 am

I find AMR exceedingly helpful, but there are always a few things to look out for.

A couple things I would suggest to look out for especially:
Always look at all the changes BEFORE you start reforging or you'll waste a lot of gold when you realize you have a slightly sub-optimal gem in a slot that would cost a fortune to replace (not too big a problem with current gem prices but you get the idea).

Make sure you lock down any shared gear or be prepared to have a very hard time sorting out both your DPS and Tank specs.

I have noticed occasionally that it will suggest ignoring gem slots even when that slot bonus would make up for the change. Don't know if it was just a bug that has since been fixed but just keep an eye on it. I had it tell me to use a Solid in a yellow slot that had a +120 stam slot bonus.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Fenris » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:12 pm

chace86 wrote:AMR seems to give me odd results if I do not have the "Exclude Special Metagem" slot checked. Not sure if that is intended or not. I am using the Control/Mastery strategy. It tells me to reforge haste from mastery. If I set it to Control/Mastery, it reforges and gems everything haste, without reaching hit cap or hard expertise cap (even with the option "Force to hit and expertise cap" enabled).

My armory: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/ ... roletarian

I have the exact same problem


With the "exclude special metagem" selected,i get good results

With it unchecked i get

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This.All the small arrows are for items where it could reforge into mastery,the larger one is for the derpest reforge of them all.

Kind of think there is a problem there (site wise,i can't see the weights having anything to do with it)....
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:58 am

Well I noticed that CharDev is back up and running for those of you who like to manually do everything.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby matthewseidl » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:34 am

I'm seeing some very confusing askmrrobot issues with force hit/expertise caps set. With that set, it never seems to want me to change anything about my gear, no matter the preset I chose (mastery, haste, or avoidance). If I uncheck forcing the caps, it definitely changes things, but takes me below the cap.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Ergil » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:59 am

Fenris about your problem with suggesting to reforge into haste, a member of the amr-team posted an answer for this on Theck's blog. AMR claculates everything which works on a RPPM-mechanic with the haste gain of RPPM-stuff. Therefore it might consider haste more useful than mastery, even if mastery is ranked higher, because of the gain in uptime on something (trinkets, weapon enchants etc.). It might be that AMR scales the meta gem with haste and therefore increases haste's value.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Fenris » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:25 am

Ergil wrote:Fenris about your problem with suggesting to reforge into haste, a member of the amr-team posted an answer for this on Theck's blog. AMR claculates everything which works on a RPPM-mechanic with the haste gain of RPPM-stuff. Therefore it might consider haste more useful than mastery, even if mastery is ranked higher, because of the gain in uptime on something (trinkets, weapon enchants etc.). It might be that AMR scales the meta gem with haste and therefore increases haste's value.

Maybe
But that makes the control/m weights completly useless (it's basically the same reforges/gems it uses for control/h)

Placing a note about it SOMEWHERE on the page would be,at least,useful
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