patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:57 am

halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


Why would you do them if there's no rewards?

And I don't know that I'd agree with your blanket statement. I've queued and done a few 5s when I was already VP capped just for, you know, fun.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Lieris » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:58 am

halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


That's because Blizzard completely marginalised them by only making 6 new ones to cover an entire expansion, removed reputation gains from them, made JP useless and didn't put any decent gear in them so of course folk are sick of them and have no reason to do them.

Like I have said before, the tanking-healing-DPSing dynamic is what makes WoW great. By sidelining 5 man content in favour of crap content like scenarios and daily hubs they distance themselves further from the social and cooperative gameplay that I loved so much.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:14 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


Why would you do them if there's no rewards?

And I don't know that I'd agree with your blanket statement. I've queued and done a few 5s when I was already VP capped just for, you know, fun.


If valor capped, I work on fishing, or arch, or wife-rep or my photography... :-)

It does depend on the 5-man a bit, I can do Jade-temple, but even when leveling I'll take the deserter debuff over doing Shadow-Pan once I've done it once for the quest.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:19 am

Klaudandus wrote:what the? i thought sunreaver onslaught's purples cost only gold, but the clock and rings do cost valor point!


Late stage PTR change with all the various changes to 5.0 LFR drop rates.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:21 am

fuzzygeek wrote:I've queued and done a few 5s when I was already VP capped just for, you know, fun.

Wait... people actually do that?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:23 am

Nikachelle wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:I've queued and done a few 5s when I was already VP capped just for, you know, fun.

Wait... people actually do that?

I do.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:26 am

Same. Just to torch through scholo in 5 pulls total :-p
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:06 pm

Lieris wrote:
halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


That's because Blizzard completely marginalised them by only making 6 new ones to cover an entire expansion, removed reputation gains from them, made JP useless and didn't put any decent gear in them so of course folk are sick of them and have no reason to do them.

Like I have said before, the tanking-healing-DPSing dynamic is what makes WoW great. By sidelining 5 man content in favour of crap content like scenarios and daily hubs they distance themselves further from the social and cooperative gameplay that I loved so much.


While I agree with your main point of why 5-mans aren't terribly popular... I do have to wonder about this tanking-healing-DPSing dynamic you mention.

Have you been in the same 5-mans I have? Since they had to step back from the cata launch 5-mans difficulty the tank-DPS relationship is mainly static. DPS-DPS is nonexistant assuming some combination of the players results in sufficient DPS to beat the encounter, Heal-tank is somewhat dynamic, though I find can make them even more bored with good play thanks to AM. Heal-DPS relation is nearly non-existant aside from the occasional party-damage fight. A real integrated dynamic doesn't really show up until LFR, and in some cases not even until normal or heroic mode raiding (I assume, I don't do HMs), IMO.

To be honest, I've found more synergy in good scenario groups with hybrid classes, where folks are doing all sorts of stuff to get the job done (bad ones just hope their deeps is better than the mobs and push facefirst through stuff then ragequit when it doesn't work). Besides, scenarios in my mind are far more a general concept than the ones they've done. I recall reading that they can technically do any size scenario, but that they stuck to small ones to try it out first.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:57 pm

Yeah, I have to say I'm starting to enjoy scenarios a whole lot more than 5 mans.

I still wish there was really difficult 5 man content though - I'm not a huge fan of the time based component of Challenge Modes. I'd love to see a long 5 man with raid like difficulty (bring back Karazhan!?) where you aren't guaranteed to clear the place even in an organized group.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Koatanga » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 pm

I think some 5-main raid content would be fun, but not if it kills 10-man raiding like 10-man killed 25-man raids. I think it would be great to scale up some of the old raid content for 5-man groups, tweaking some of the mechanics as required to handle 1 tank and 1 healer. Kara, for example, is a fine idea. It was a fun place when relevant, but people just steamroll through it for mog runs if they go in at all.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:47 pm

No, it'd have to be something completely separate (as in a unique instance that is only available as a 5 man). I'd imagine drops wouls be inferior to normal mode raiding too, maybe on the same level as LFR.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Lieris » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:22 am

benebarba wrote:
Lieris wrote:
halabar wrote:5-mans are fine for leveling, but at 90, the repetition is worse than the dentist, especially when there are no rewards.


That's because Blizzard completely marginalised them by only making 6 new ones to cover an entire expansion, removed reputation gains from them, made JP useless and didn't put any decent gear in them so of course folk are sick of them and have no reason to do them.

Like I have said before, the tanking-healing-DPSing dynamic is what makes WoW great. By sidelining 5 man content in favour of crap content like scenarios and daily hubs they distance themselves further from the social and cooperative gameplay that I loved so much.


While I agree with your main point of why 5-mans aren't terribly popular... I do have to wonder about this tanking-healing-DPSing dynamic you mention.

Have you been in the same 5-mans I have? Since they had to step back from the cata launch 5-mans difficulty the tank-DPS relationship is mainly static. DPS-DPS is nonexistant assuming some combination of the players results in sufficient DPS to beat the encounter, Heal-tank is somewhat dynamic, though I find can make them even more bored with good play thanks to AM. Heal-DPS relation is nearly non-existant aside from the occasional party-damage fight. A real integrated dynamic doesn't really show up until LFR, and in some cases not even until normal or heroic mode raiding (I assume, I don't do HMs), IMO.


I sadly agree but that's down to Blizzard getting people used to mindless AOE zergs in WotLK so when they stepped things up a bit at Cata launch all the whiners came out in full force so they capitulated. TBC dungeons taught me how to play my class and how to play with others and for a brief time, Cata had that same dynamic I enjoyed so much. I bang on about it a lot but sorting out LOS pulls, being careful not to pull too many packs, interrupts, marking CC, having a hunter kite away a heavy hitting mob, marking patrols... I miss that.

These days every class and spec has a huge toolkit that dwarves what they had in TBC, yet none of it is used in dungeons. There is the potential to design really interesting dungeons but I guess LFD and the "gogogo" mentality hamstrings them. As someone who thinks that dungeons should be more than just a stepping stone for raiding and that when done right can be the most enjoyable content in the game, I think that's tragic.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Lieris » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:35 am

Newsom wrote:No, it'd have to be something completely separate (as in a unique instance that is only available as a 5 man). I'd imagine drops wouls be inferior to normal mode raiding too, maybe on the same level as LFR.


If they could do 5 man content that is as hard as raid content (several hours to learn, unforgiving, consumables etc.), I wouldn't have a problem with normal mode raid quality items dropping. Maybe even have dungeon sets too with their own unique set bonuses and models.

Something for people who don't want to raid but enjoy small group content and want a way to improve their character that doesn't involve grinding tedious dailies. It would also give raiders something to do on off-nights and give normal mode raiders an extra source of items to give them a leg up that doesn't involve welfare epics.

Just an idea..
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:43 am

Lieris wrote:
Newsom wrote:No, it'd have to be something completely separate (as in a unique instance that is only available as a 5 man). I'd imagine drops wouls be inferior to normal mode raiding too, maybe on the same level as LFR.


If they could do 5 man content that is as hard as raid content (several hours to learn, unforgiving, consumables etc.),

Reminds me of a four hour run on Murmur back in BC. Oh god the memories.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:53 am

Nikachelle wrote:
Lieris wrote:
Newsom wrote:No, it'd have to be something completely separate (as in a unique instance that is only available as a 5 man). I'd imagine drops wouls be inferior to normal mode raiding too, maybe on the same level as LFR.


If they could do 5 man content that is as hard as raid content (several hours to learn, unforgiving, consumables etc.),

Reminds me of a four hour run on Murmur back in BC. Oh god the memories.



lol, I was thinking Shattered Halls.
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