Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

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Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby Kaigen » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:13 pm

Hello guys,

I was looking at my gear strategy on AskMrRobot and it came up with Tier 15 items... I must be missing something here, because I think that the tier 15 set bonus are, simply put, completely awful and useless.

So am I just being dumb here or is AMR simply giving me bad information ?

Thanks !
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby daishan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:00 pm

Theck did a nice analysis of the bonuses a while back http://sacredduty.net/2013/01/24/protec ... t-bonuses/

The short short version is: 4-piece is good, and probably worth getting. But the 2-piece is probably at best a “meh.” It lowers the opportunity cost of having to use WoG, which is probably good because SotR is such a huge amount of mitigation to give up.



Personally I can't decide how soon I'll try to get the tier, will depend a lot on what non tier drops and how badly our priests and holy pally want the tokens.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby Promdates » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:48 pm

I did see somewhere, where someone mentioned they were able to get the 100% uptime on the 2p bonus and still use SotR to a great success. Let me see if I can find that again.

edit: I may have thought I read that in a late night valor capping stupor. At worst, the 2P would let Divine Purpose be a little better, being able to cast SotR and proc the 2P bonus right after.

Wonder if I can get Theck to figure out the HoPo/sec with 11k haste unbuffed would be in a boss fight.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby Fetzie » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:09 am

3.57 CD on CS --> 1/3.57 = 0.28 hopo/s
4.77 CD on J --> 1/4.77 = 0.20 hopo/s
GC ~ every 20 s = 0.05 hopo/s

=> approximately 0.53 holy power per second at 11000 haste rating (25.9% haste). So you would expect to be able to cast a finisher about every 5.66 seconds.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby stevos » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:49 am

I don't get why people say the tier bonus is awful.

I agree its not imba but for panic situations where you are having to use WoG to keep yourself alive, it's pretty useful.

It's why i prefer on use trinkets, even if they are are a little less effective over the course of the whole fight, I have them up when I need them rather than a proc when I am at 100% health and healers are not behind on raid healing.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby Zothor » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:43 pm

Theck and had a bit of a back and forth on his recent Sacred Duty post about my biggest concern with the tier pieces, which isn't so much their generally shoddy itemization or the awesomeness/mediocrity of the set bonuses, it's that they're no longer competing with offset pieces of the same item level. Thunderforged 528 gear has a not insignificant amount of additional stamina and armor on it, and that's before you consider the fact that there are equally or better itemized non-tier pieces in all five slots. He's indicated he'll be simulating the 4 piece value compared to the survival stat loss for not using superior 528 gear, and I hope he's got some way to ponder the 2 piece as well (since, based on my napkin math, the 2 piece is much more attainable since the tier shoulders are excellent). Stay tuned.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby theckhd » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:03 am

Fetzie wrote:3.57 CD on CS --> 1/3.57 = 0.28 hopo/s
4.77 CD on J --> 1/4.77 = 0.20 hopo/s
GC ~ every 20 s = 0.05 hopo/s

=> approximately 0.53 holy power per second at 11000 haste rating (25.9% haste). So you would expect to be able to cast a finisher about every 5.66 seconds.


J is not a 6-second cooldown. It's a 6.75-second effective cooldown because of CS clashes, and thus turns into a 6.75/1.2588=5.36 second cooldown with 11k haste.

Alternatively, it's just easier to think in terms of unhasted values.
CS HoPo = 1.12/4.5 = 0.2489 HP/sec (including GC procs from CS/HotR, hence 1.12 instead of 1)
J HoPo = 1/6.75 = 0.1481 HP/sec
GC: assuming 30% avoidance, it's a 12% chance per avoid, or 0.12*0.3=0.036=3.6% chance per boss swing. For a 1.5-second swing timer, that's 0.036/1.5=0.024 HP/sec (nearly negligible, and worse for longer swing timers, time off-target, or bosses that pause to cast).

Net HP gen at 0 haste: 0.2489+0.1481+0.024=0.4210 HP/sec, which is also your SotR uptime (42.10%).

Net HP gen at 11k haste (25.88% haste): (0.2489+0.1481)*1.2588+0.024=0.5237, or 52.37% SotR uptime. (note that the avoidance contribution to GC does not scale with haste).
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby culhag » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:01 pm

Hard choice !
Should I keep Lightning Emperor's Faceguard which gives me the 4p bonus, or replace it with the Puncture-Proof Greathelm that I just got ?

I like the 4p bonus, but that's a big ilvl difference even with the double avoidance stats.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby Volitaire » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:25 am

I've been passing all of our tier over to the others in the raid on our token. I find both tier bonuses to be pretty meh at least in the 10H scene.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby Stubblerump » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:55 pm

I'm stuck on the same question (for multiple toons/specs). I have a few pieces of 502 that could replace some 483 tier, and even 522 nonsets for 496 set pieces. At what point are the raw stat upgrades better than the set bonuses? Cause Mr Robot seems to reaaaaaally value the set bonuses over ilvl.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby Fetzie » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:53 pm

I reckon that as soon as you see ~20 item level difference, screw set bonuses unless they are godly awesome (and T14 aren't).
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:18 pm

culhag wrote:Hard choice !


What did you end up deciding? I'd argue that d/p points are far inferior to xpt/mast+4pc, but good god that's a huge chunk of ilvl, and a gigantic stamina boost.

Stubblerump wrote:At what point are the raw stat upgrades better than the set bonuses?


Depends on the class/bonus. I'm really, really loathe to give up the t14 4pc on my priest, but I ditched paladin t14 set bonuses while it was still current.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby Fenris » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:41 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
culhag wrote:Hard choice !


What did you end up deciding? I'd argue that d/p points are far inferior to xpt/mast+4pc, but good god that's a huge chunk of ilvl, and a gigantic stamina boost.

Stubblerump wrote:At what point are the raw stat upgrades better than the set bonuses?


Depends on the class/bonus. I'm really, really loathe to give up the t14 4pc on my priest, but I ditched paladin t14 set bonuses while it was still current.

Meh,with all the SotR-able specials in this tier i'm not so sure ditching t14-4 is that easy

At least,I'm still sitting on it even with 2p t15 and an offset helm in my bag :?
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:45 am

Fenris wrote:At least,I'm still sitting on it even with 2p t15 and an offset helm in my bag :?


Try farm content without the 4pc bonus and see if it makes a noticeable difference. If your healers can't tell which set you're wearing, it might be okay to swap pieces out.
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Re: Prot tier 15 ... Am I missing something ?

Postby culhag » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:15 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
culhag wrote:Hard choice !


What did you end up deciding? I'd argue that d/p points are far inferior to xpt/mast+4pc, but good god that's a huge chunk of ilvl, and a gigantic stamina boost.

I've kept the 4p bonus for now (I really like the free HoPo) but the question is still nagging me.

I think I'll make the switch if I can get a heroic piece to replace another normal tier piece at the same time.
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