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[10N] Council of Elders

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[10N] Council of Elders

Postby Oleg » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:54 am

My guild is currently working on this encounter on 10 man normal. We tried a few different strats, such as trying to burn down sul, but we settled on what i think is a pretty standard strat.

My co-tank pulls marli away from the other bosses. I tank sul and malakk together and interrupt sul as much as i can. When malakk starts stacking his debuff the other tank grabs him and i taunt him back as soon as my stack drops.

For the other mechanics we are handling them as it appears to be intended. We have two people stack with the debuff player when malakk is empowered, otherwise everyone spreads out to minimize splash damage. Everyone knows at this point to move out of sand, what targets get priority. The loa spirits are being stunned and killed, the sand adds are being aoe, etc.

The one thing that is still screwing us up is that the bosses will frequently remain empowered long past the 25% damage-delt mark. We have pushed them down by 35% or more on some occasions (and this is counting from health they were at when empowered went off) and they just don't leave that form, their energy maxed out and we die.

I am assuming this is a bug, but I know many guilds have downed this encounter, so if we are missing something please let me know!

Here is a log of our attempts if that helps:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/56m9 ... 775&e=9154
Last edited by Oleg on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Volitaire » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:03 am

We downed this on Tuesday and really didn't have much issue. Not sure what you are seeing with the bosses not dropping the empowered buff but after burning the boss for 25% it was dropping without any issue for us. Below is our kill video and has our mumble conversation. The video quality pretty much sucks because my xsplit apprently reset my bitrate but oh well. Hope it helps.

Also note that we were dealing with a major crashing issue from Elvirra (our shadow priest) and you can hear us talking about it. She was essentially playing with zero addons and was having to click her abilities so we were more or less 9.5 manning the fight. We had 2 or 3 pulls before this one that we were truly 9 manning the fight and were coming up just shy of getting the 25% damage onto the empowered boss that charges around the room.

We spent a large portion of the fight stacked allowing our druid tank to top the DPS meters so that probably brought in alot more dps than strats are that are setup for spreading out all of the bosses full time. We didn't find much of a reason to really keep a boss on the Priestess full time at all so it allow both of us as tanks to stay on top of each other with Sul and Mal-arak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM-UWC7l_SY
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Oleg » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:59 am

I like the idea to keep both tanks stacked with sul/malakk, thats what I was doing by myself, and I was usually top or second in dps for the raid. I see a few things you guys were doing differently that we can use. Hopefully the glitches we had with the empowerment won't happen again and we can get the kill tonight. Thanks for your post and video!
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby lakhesis » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:06 pm

Have people been 2 or 3 healing this?

8/16h (MV+2) guild, 498-500ish average ilvl. Started trying the burn Sul approach late in last night's attempts and seemed to be going ok, but the balance of breaking out empowered bosses while getting damage into Sul was iffy while three healing. Our earlier experiments with 2 healing made the dps very smooth, but it was prior to us using the burn Sul strat & entering Sul's phase was a guaranteed wipe.

With 2 healers we could prettymuch guarantee killing Sul pre-empowerment, but the others will be ~60-70% so are we going to drive our healers OOM finishing?

As a side note, running 3 melee + our switch healer being ret/holy is a serious pain here, but at least we've got good cleave. Also finding that paladin works pretty well for tanking Mar'li.. between frisbee and rebuke I can just about halve her casts, with unglyphed DP and trinkets for the periods I'm taunting Frost King away from our bear (we're using the same tank split as Oleg). Tried letting Mar'li freecast, like in that vid, but found the extra damage too annoying.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:28 pm

It really comes down to how you handle the mechanics.
There are numerous, numerous ways to handle them. They all end in the same place - there should be pretty much minimal raid damage.

What WE did was this:
You want Sul dead first. Burn him at the start and then keep damage on him constant.
Have all your interrupts on Sand Bolt. Unless you're dedicating like 5 interrupts the whole fight, anything you could interrupt on Marli is honestly better off going on Sul.

Have a tank generate threat on Mar'li at the start, and then leave her alone. I just Beared her for until Malak did his first Frigid Assault, and then joined the raid. She just spent the rest of the fight doing Wrath of Loa on me.

For Kaz's Empower, we just had a Shaman use double Grounding on his Reflect. What we did was track his health when he was empowered (typically 92%), and burned him through his first two Reflects with Grounding each. At 70% (he had like 70 Dark Energy), we stopped dps on him and let dots tick away, then turned around and did that last 1% if we needed it when he hit 100. Even without Grounding, it isn't too bad.

You can not tank swap on Malak if you want to and cooldown through stuns. Honestly, we found zero reason to do that. Remember that with 3 people in a Frostbite, it does 22k to each of them (66k total), but with 2 people, it does 66k to each of them (132k total).

You want to push your bosses as close as possible to the 100 Dark Power mark. A common mistake guilds are probably doing is trying to rush the Empower.
In between, just hit Sul. If you don't have him dead by the time he's Empowered (which you probably won't if you're struggling atm), you should have him at ~10%. Blow up the adds and kill him before a second Sandstorm. After that, the rest of the fight is a joke, just clean up.

It's not actually very hard or complex of a fight. It's just that if you're handling any certain mechanic wrong (e.g. people being confused about Biting Cold/Frostbite, or having Sand Bolts splash through because people are stacking up, or you're rushing Empowers and Sul is Empowered when he has like 50% health so you're in this rush to get through Sandstorm and the resulting chaos), you're making it MUCH harder on healers, and they will notice.

Identify your issue, and work to address that issue. If you're having "too much raid damage", it's a guarantee that there's one or more mechanic that could be handled better to minimise it.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby PsiVen » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:37 pm

Yeah, I think once we handled Overload in particular properly the raid damage was a lot more manageable. If you just have everyone burn hard through that it really hurts. You have to do everything possible to reduce raid damage, because it will be very high with something going unchecked. But once everything is handled it goes nicely.

Sandstorm itself was never anywhere near as painful as Overload for us, but as soon as Sul is dead most of the raid damage and positioning issues disappear entirely. So I would prefer to 3-heal unless your DPS is too low to kill Sul during his first Empower, because 2-healing only makes things harder until one of them is completely dead. The first Empower on Malakk especially allows you to cheat it a bit and eat 10s or so of Dark Power while burning Sul as much as possible.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:27 pm

Grounding totem works on the charge guys reflect?
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Rokh » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:54 pm

Tank the Ice guy ontop of the sand guy.

Pull the healer chick to the far side of the "circle" thingy they spawn in.

Tank swap between ice guy and healer chick.. we found keeping a tank on her to insta stun + daze the add was really easy.


dps the guy that turns purple... collect loot..


Battle healer thingy is sick for this fight because you generate insta threat on all the sand spawns and can just walk backwards and drop sand where you want it.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Oleg » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:29 pm

Grommash wrote:Grounding totem works on the charge guys reflect?

Yes it does.

We got the kill tonight. We changed our strat a bit, and the biggest thing was that our enh shaman could attend today. We burned sul as much as possible in the start, and also for as long as we could during the priest's empower as well, switching dps to push them out of their empower phases as close to 100 energy as possible. My co tank would go drag the priest into the sul/malak stack for her empower phase as well for extra cleave, while everyone was initially just focusing on sul. Then just reposition afterwards.

Shaman could drop glyphed grounding totem for two of the Kaz' damage refections and made the healers very happy.

We aren't in full BIS heroic gear in our guild, by the time Sul was empowered we had him around 35%, after his empower was over co-tank and I finished him off promptly, and then the rest went smoothly.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Winkle » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:28 am

We didn't let Sul become empowered. We 3 healed 2 tanked.

Popped hero on the pull, nuked Sul until frost king hit 70 energy then switched, broke empower then back on Sul. Priest empowered, switched at 40 energy with all ranged, our 1 melee stayed on Sul. 3rd to empower was Kaz, finished off sul and then switched to Kaz, fight was over.

Attempting to actually do this fight "properly" i.e. by switching to each empowered boss in turn seems to be harder than just burning sul to avoid the add phase.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Bellanka » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:58 am

We didn't have a tank on Mar'li at all once she was pulled away to the far side of the room. We had our Ele Shaman and Mage use a focus macro interrupt for her randomly.

I tanked Sul the whole time (and managed to get the majority of his interrupts solo between rebuke, AS, and the BE racial) while our Monk tanked the Frost Guy until he started applying debuffs, then I tanked both Sul and the Frost guy with DP up until our Monk took him back. This strat worked best for us in all our pulls.

We didn't really focus Sul down, because his add phase was a joke between frost DK Remorseless, the monk AoE stun, and the glyphed protadin AoE stun on elementals.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby PsiVen » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:15 pm

Well, the add phase isn't an issue so much as the quicksand and sand bolts. Once those go away the burst damage is nonexistent. Even if you choose a different guy, excess DPS not needed to beat Dark Power is best spent on one of them. Sul is the obvious choice there.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Bellante » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:40 pm

Oleg wrote:
Grommash wrote:Grounding totem works on the charge guys reflect?

Yes it does.



Let me just see if I understand, isn't the reflect a constant reflection? How does glyphed grounding totem affect that?
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby Oleg » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:32 pm

Bellante wrote:
Oleg wrote:
Grommash wrote:Grounding totem works on the charge guys reflect?

Yes it does.



Let me just see if I understand, isn't the reflect a constant reflection? How does glyphed grounding totem affect that?


I am not sure how it works internally, but what happens in practice is that for the 15 second duration of grounding totem, nobody in the party with the shaman that drops the totem will take the reflected damage. This trick also worked on spirit kings and similar mechanics.
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Re: [10N] Council of Elders

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:26 pm

I guess it's counting the reflected damage as an incoming spell and redirecting it, but not as a spell cast by an enemy at a player for it to consume the totem charge. Which you'd think is something Blizz would fix.
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