Politics (formerly Election 2012)

[KysenMurrin]

It looks like she's a token liberal they bring on now and then to give the impression of balance.

[Klaudandus]

Politics International Edition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_X
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/ ... en-zygier/
http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2013/s3688787.htm

[Nooska]

First; new Crowd Chart since its been at least 6 pages since it was last posted.

Been away for a few days visiting family (well "in-law" family - quotationmarks as we are still "only" engaged)

Paxen; I'll turn that argument on its head:
There is one or more gods, and humanity having believed so for millenia, means your statement of the absence of such an entity is the one requiring proof.

As to the 2 conclusions from Koatanga;

3: A higher power exists, and influences the physical world, but we are not able to percieve the influence as it is done methodically and can be explained and predicted. (Think of the higher power(s) as OCD for instance)
4: A higher power exists and merely set the rules for how things work (as described by science), to observe us (((and judge us worthy or not, if you want to add that part in as well)))


Now for politics;
How do you foresee the selection of a new pope/retirement of the current to go down, what consequences will it have for the catholic church, which encompasses about 1/6th the worlds population?

[Klaudandus]

well, seeing how the Queen isn't retiring...

and if ratzinger is burned out, is due to his own incompetence... seeing how as a cardinal he was active participant in the cover-up of pederast clergymen

Ok, that wasn't aimed at me, but I felt like throwing me two cents =P

[Paxen]

Paxen; I'll turn that argument on its head:
There is one or more gods, and humanity having believed so for millenia, means your statement of the absence of such an entity is the one requiring proof.

No. People are fallible - that everybody believes something does not make it correct, not in religion and not anywhere else. I refer you to Kejserens nye klæder.

Now for politics;
How do you foresee the selection of a new pope/retirement of the current to go down, what consequences will it have for the catholic church, which encompasses about 1/6th the worlds population?

Not sure if will have any big consequences. It's eminently sensible (the Pope steps down when he can't do the job anymore), and the Catholic Church is the expert at spinning things so that how they do it now is how they've always done it, regardless of fatcs.

[Klaudandus]

It also amuses me that... you know, being the man closest to god on earth, according to the precepts of that faith, he didn't ask god for extra strength?

[Dantriges]

Not sure if will have any big consequences. It's eminently sensible (the Pope steps down when he can't do the job anymore), and the Catholic Church is the expert at spinning things so that how they do it now is how they've always done it, regardless of fatcs.

Ehm, they already admitted that it has been over 700 years since a pope retired. Not sure, could be the last one was one of the three popes during the schism. Remember something about one of them steping down vluntarily, the other two being declared as "never has been a pope."

It also amuses me that... you know, being the man closest to god on earth, according to the precepts of that faith, he didn't ask god for extra strength?

He probably did or do you have special insight into the pope´s evening prayers? Perhaps he felt that God is ok with him passing on the burden. Not that I think that God appeared for evening tea and said "Hey bub, you can take it easy now and get a young whippersnapper og 65 on the throne", just that he was praying and meditating on the issue and got to this conclusion.

[Klaudandus]

Considering the opulence he lives in (surprised he doesnt have a mini giraffe)... it's quite dissonant that he gets a break, but the poorest of the catholics don't get that break.

It's not like the single mom stuck with 3 kids and living quite poorly in Philippines (as an example) can just say "I'm gonna retire from being poor"

[Nooska]

Actually, its only 598 years since the last time a pope abdicated (it was in 1415), but yeah.

Though the argument that "God decides when a pope is done" can still be used "It was divinely inspired".

"People are fallible - that everybody believes something does not make it correct, not in religion and not anywhere else."
People are fallible - that some people believe something does not make it correct, not in religion and not anywhere else.

That argument is correct, but also cuts both ways.
Oh, and Kejserens Nye Klæder (The Emperors New Clothes) is not about people believeing, but people, including the emperor, and all his advisors, being ashamed to be ridiculed, as the conmen tell them that only the stupid can't see the clothes, and none of the people want to "admit" that they are stupid - it also exists in a world where magic is real, which is how the clothes work, so reference failed

[Paxen]

so reference failed

Meh. The clothes never existed, it's clear that it's a con by the tailors. And they would never have existed, even if the beggar boy never pointed out that the emperor had no clothes on. Even if everybody said it did.

[Nooska]

Yes, its clear to the reader, and I agree to a certain point, but the morale of the story isn't "it isn't true even if everyone believes it", its "Don't be afraid to admit your limitations" or "you need to be unaware of possible consequences to speak truth to power".

[fuzzygeek]

It looks like she's a token liberal they bring on now and then to give the impression of balance.

Do other stations have token conservatives they bring on now and then to give the impression of balance?

[KysenMurrin]

Probably. It's a common enough journalistic thing - when they want to show argument between two sides, they often have a few go-to faces who are willing to do it.

[Klaudandus]

It looks like she's a token liberal they bring on now and then to give the impression of balance.

Do other stations have token conservatives they bring on now and then to give the impression of balance?

Yes.

I remember Lou Dobbs in CNN for example.

[Klaudandus]

Can I say Schadenfreude?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/1 ... howAll=yes