patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:13 am

theckhd wrote:
Newsom wrote:Yep. The neck at neutral is perfectly itemized though. Unless the heroic elite expertise neck decides to drop I'll likely save some valor to buy that piece. There is no point in capping to 3k before the patch though considering the gear is gated by reputation.

I wouldn't say "perfectly" itemized. Remember that hit/exp >> haste > mastery in general. A hit/haste or exp/haste item is perfectly itemized. Haste/mastery is decent, but if you do that in too many slots you can't hit/exp cap.


Am I the only one swimming in hit rating? I'd admit haste/exp would be slighly more appealing though, but haste/mastery is pretty damn nice.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:15 am

I think most players in heroic gear are swimming in hit rating. Not so much with expertise though. Haste/mastery is certainly the best runner-up once you're capped though, so the neck is still a great pick-up. I'm going to be saving 1250 VP for it now that we get to keep VP.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:04 am

Indomitable Primal Diamond – 1.00 RealPPM on damage/absorb taken from melee ability or swing. No ICD.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:34 am

1 RPPM means one proc per minute based on only auto-attacking once every 2.6 seconds, doesn't it? So like, on average 2-3 procs per minute if you are actually playing?

And do these meta-gems replace a meta gem, or add an additional slot to the helmet?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:51 am

AFAIK we get to add an extra meta socket on any helm, so you get to have both.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:56 am

Fetzie wrote:1 RPPM means one proc per minute based on only auto-attacking once every 2.6 seconds, doesn't it? So like, on average 2-3 procs per minute if you are actually playing?

No, RPPM works on every/any damaging event. So it'll be about 1 proc per minute.

<edit> and with a 15 second duration, the average uptime at 10% haste should be about 24%. 26% uptime with 20% haste, 28% uptime with 30% haste.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:57 am

So, now that we can keep our valor, what to do has gotten a bit more confusing... so assuming I finish capping valor before the patch, do I:

1) upgrade 496 tier legs IF Sha decides to give them up prior to the patch?
2) save valor for the reduced cost 496 belt right after patch?
3) save valor for the new rep neck (assuming we start at neutral, so can buy the neck right away?
4) upgrade any of my other gear while I still can? (gun, gloves, and trinket are upgraded already)

I should be able to do 2 and 3 easily if I hold off on the others, but for a casual raider, I wonder how long it will take to gain the new rep, which is where all the valor spending will go post-patch.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:00 am

Think one of the blues said you could pretty much get Friendly with a single boss kill, and there are items at every rep level including neutral.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:07 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Think one of the blues said you could pretty much get Friendly with a single boss kill, and there are items at every rep level including neutral.


Hmm, if that's the case, saving the valor is in order, since LFR kills will give rep as well.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:11 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Think one of the blues said you could pretty much get Friendly with a single boss kill, and there are items at every rep level including neutral.


Pretty sure it was a single clear, not kill. 3000 reputation per boss would mean we'd all be exalted in 2 weeks of doing normal modes...

Also note that LFR the first week LFR is open only 3 bosses will be available. I'm guessing it won't be available at all the first week of 5.2.

<edit> reworded it a bit to be less confusing
Last edited by Newsom on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:14 am

Newsom wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:Think one of the blues said you could pretty much get Friendly with a single boss kill, and there are items at every rep level including neutral.


Pretty sure it was a single clear, not kill. 3000 reputation per boss would mean we'd all be exalted the second week.

Also note that LFR is probably not open the first week, and the second week only 3 bosses will be available.


Unless there are some initial quests that push you to near Friendly. Will have to poke around on the PTR again this weekend to see if I have any rep yet.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:08 am

Bashiok said it:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=3#58
Actually there are items at each reputation, even neutral, and getting to Friendly is (I believe) essentially just a single boss kill. It ramps up from there obviously, but you will have stuff to spend Valor on pretty quickly.



In other news, one of the trinkets they're adding in 5.2 is really weird. It snapshots your current Haste/Crit/Mastery, and gives you a buff that removes the two lower stats and adds the amount to the highest one. It's going to give some odd interactions - like crit chance being close to zero when it procs Mastery or Haste, which could affect proc rates on other abilities and items. Any toon where Crit/Haste/Mastery are about equal in value will get next to no dps increase from it.

GC made an interesting point regarding Enhancement and the mastery proc's interaction with Ascendance, which could be pretty nice, but at the same time, the loss of Crit and Haste has a negative interaction with Flurry and Unleashed Fury: Windfury.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:41 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Bashiok said it:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=3#58
Actually there are items at each reputation, even neutral, and getting to Friendly is (I believe) essentially just a single boss kill. It ramps up from there obviously, but you will have stuff to spend Valor on pretty quickly.



In other news, one of the trinkets they're adding in 5.2 is really weird. It snapshots your current Haste/Crit/Mastery, and gives you a buff that removes the two lower stats and adds the amount to the highest one. It's going to give some odd interactions - like crit chance being close to zero when it procs Mastery or Haste, which could affect proc rates on other abilities and items. Any toon where Crit/Haste/Mastery are about equal in value will get next to no dps increase from it.

GC made an interesting point regarding Enhancement and the mastery proc's interaction with Ascendance, which could be pretty nice, but at the same time, the loss of Crit and Haste has a negative interaction with Flurry and Unleashed Fury: Windfury.


Assuming Bashiok is correct, there must be some initial rep gained to push close to Friendly.

Regarding that odd trinket, it could also lead to capping, or effective diminishing returns, especially with something like crit, or even mastery for certain classes. Would be interesting if it was an on-use but as a proc it seems like a headache to plan for.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:16 pm

They could do some annoying Rep that scales based on your current rep. 3K when neutral, 2K when friendly, 1K when honored, 500 (1K with commendation) when Revered.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Promdates » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:19 pm

That's also an Agility trinket. Which I highly doubt you'll want to acquire.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:25 pm

No one said we could only talk about Paladins here. ;) I've been a Shaman main for a couple of years now.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:43 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:No one said we could only talk about Paladins here. ;) I've been a Shaman main for a couple of years now.


Indeed.. :-)

And I can't see how that trinket would be really useful for any of the agi classes. The trinket would hard-cap MM mastery, while gimping at the same time due to no crit, or push haste past GCD points making much of the increase useless. At best you would want it for crit, but even then the value diminishes with the huge increases. I don't even want to try to figure out what it would do for a feral.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:12 pm

In other news, one of the trinkets they're adding in 5.2 is really weird. It snapshots your current Haste/Crit/Mastery, and gives you a buff that removes the two lower stats and adds the amount to the highest one. It's going to give some odd interactions - like crit chance being close to zero when it procs Mastery or Haste, which could affect proc rates on other abilities and items. Any toon where Crit/Haste/Mastery are about equal in value will get next to no dps increase from it.

GC made an interesting point regarding Enhancement and the mastery proc's interaction with Ascendance, which could be pretty nice, but at the same time, the loss of Crit and Haste has a negative interaction with Flurry and Unleashed Fury: Windfury.


It'll only affect things like Crit from actual Crit Rating (as opposed to, say, Crit from Agility) so it'll hit subratings, but not quite as hard.
It's still a pretty terrible trinket though on the surface - Bears and BM's will avoid it, Hunters may find it useful, Cat can maybe get use of the Mastery proc and a Dream build to put up some souped builds.

What I can see the trinket allowing (if they don't fix it) is for something like WW's getting the proc, getting Tigereye Brew with the higher Mastery, and then CANCELLING the trinket proc, so they get a persistent buff and then go back to Normal within a few seconds. But that's even more terrible than just being bad, because it's just shitty design to actually use the trinket.

I don't even want to try to figure out what it would do for a feral.


As Feral, you'd be going for MAstery for 200% increased Bleed damage, refresh a Rip/Rake and then probably cancel the buff right away.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Zalaria » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:17 pm

halabar wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:No one said we could only talk about Paladins here. ;) I've been a Shaman main for a couple of years now.


Indeed.. :-)

And I can't see how that trinket would be really useful for any of the agi classes. The trinket would hard-cap MM mastery, while gimping at the same time due to no crit, or push haste past GCD points making much of the increase useless. At best you would want it for crit, but even then the value diminishes with the huge increases. I don't even want to try to figure out what it would do for a feral.


Most ferals go for mastery, I believe. For the duration of the trinket, they'd have increased bleed damage (mastery), reduced energy regen & swing speed (haste), and no extra combo points (crit). Looking at my own feral (ilvl 484), the trinket would give me roughly 2/3 more mastery rating, taking me from ~60% mastery to ~80% on roughly half of my damage sources. 1/8th increase on 1/2 the damage gives 1/16th damage increase from the stat gain portion, roughly +9k dps for the duration given 70k overall dps. That's extremely rough calculation, but seems decent. I'm not sure what effect the stat loss portion would have though. That's harder to guess at.

I can say I'd be annoyed at the lack of extra combo points though. That's already frustrating enough when the RNG does it.




re: cancelling it. Don't dots update to your current stats these days? So if you cancel it, wouldn't your dots lose the bonus damage?


Another interesting thing. According to mmo-champion's database all three versions of the trinket use the same proc effect, meaning the only gain from LFR->normal->heroic is in the agility portion of the trinket.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:19 pm

Stats (Crit etc.) yes. %buffs is another story. Those calculate on application.

It's why Dream of Cenarius works as well as it does when you time the Dream buff to work on your dots.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:19 pm

re: cancelling it. Don't dots update to your current stats these days? So if you cancel it, wouldn't your dots lose the bonus damage?

Usually only update on refresh or application.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Zalaria » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:21 pm

Interesting. Good to know.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:44 pm

Zalaria wrote:Another interesting thing. According to mmo-champion's database all three versions of the trinket use the same proc effect, meaning the only gain from LFR->normal->heroic is in the agility portion of the trinket.


Still, considering the weirdness of that proc, I'd much rather have the:

agi with haste proc, or
mastery with agi proc (plus voodoo gnomes!!!!)

also should be noted that that odd one procs on being hit, so it's possible that for some classes it may not proc at all unless it factors in aoe damage and such, depending on the fight.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:47 pm

Oh well,the SoJ change is going to be reverted

I'm sooo surprised.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:22 pm

Another interesting thing. According to mmo-champion's database all three versions of the trinket use the same proc effect, meaning the only gain from LFR->normal->heroic is in the agility portion of the trinket.


While the gain from upgrading your trinket in the proc stays stagnant, your proc scales with all upgrades on any other slots, so the overall scaling is the same.
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