All about sports

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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:00 pm

Paxen wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:
Paxen wrote:Specifically, about how Player's Associations blocking testing and speculating about PEDs is connected.
Peter King mentioned today that he's heard that the NFL is going to try to get HGH testing approved this offseason if they can get it through the NFLPA. That's so ass backwards it's not even funny. What a joke these player's unions are.


Player's associations do good stuff (veterans salaries and such), but drug testing isn't one of them.

I agree the players need a union, the owners need that sort of balance or things would just be silly. That said, veteran's salaries, which is the their equivalent of tenure is one of the most universal brain dead ideas there is. Mandatory increases in pay for no increase in production is nonsensical. I'd argue in the NFL it's been a mostly negative thing anyhow. Veteran starters are paid well above the minimum anyhow, and veterans that don't start (save for QBs) are often cut completely as a result because they are simply not worth it.

Paxen wrote:This is a shitty reason. Unions should have as much interest in cleaning up the sport as the leagues have. In the end, they're eating out of the samt trough - if the fans turn against the sport because they lose faith the athletes, both owners and player suffer.

Plus, by working against testing, unions are working for the interests of their cheating members, but directly against the interests of their clean members.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm talking about. The unions are essentially pushing something that is harmful on their players.

It's a terrible bargaining chip because they owners are glad to have a bunch of steroid freaks running around as long as they put of the appearance of testing and making things clean. It's not a bargaining chip, it's a way for the freaking owners to avoid responsibility when any of the negative side effects of black market PED use rears it's head. The owners are laughing all the way to the bank on this one, all the way around they get the benefit of a more sensational product, a perception that they are trying to keep the sport clean, and it puts all the risk of using them on the players.

If I was a clean player, I'd be absolutely livid if mandatory blood testing wasn't THE top priority of the union, much less that they are actually so far opposed to that, that it will not happen anytime soon. These unions are just too selfish, too focused on the moment instead of the long term effects on the players.

Just like how every year you hear these complaints from retired players who have game related health issues seeking more health money/benefits. Strangely enough, when you hear the current player reps talk about it, they are against helping these guys out. Their take is that those retired players didn't help out the generation before them when those people came asking, and so the present group isn't interested cutting in to the profit sharing model to give them much either. They were patting themselves on the back for changing their "disability" standard to match the gov'ts...

These unions are decent at negotiating better salaries for their players, and I think the rookie cap was probably a good thing. But overall, I think it's very questionable that they have the best long term interests of their players in mind.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:51 pm

I think the rookie cap was rather self-serving on the part of the vets who negotiated the CBA in the NFL. The part that bothers me the most is that if a late-drafted rookie performs well above expectation, there is no way for him to be rewarded for three years.

Take Russell Wilson, for example. Tied the rookie record for touchdown throws. Set the rookie record for difference between TD throws and INTs (+16). 2nd all-time rookie passer rating. Clearly a good athlete in a good place, but the Seahawks can't pay him like he deserves. They have to keep with his rookie contract and pay him peanuts for the next two years.

There really needs to be some room for teams to reward players who perform.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:03 pm

Well it was self serving (isn't that the point?), but the risks teams were willing to take on rookies, wasn't paying out overall. Only it wasn't the rookies who suffered when those risks fell through, it was the vets. They are mitigating risk and and forcing a more productivity based model. The problem you note is a fair complaint. Arguably, the terms may need tweaked and perhaps even a bonus model or something added to it.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:57 am

Koatanga wrote:I think the rookie cap was rather self-serving on the part of the vets who negotiated the CBA in the NFL. The part that bothers me the most is that if a late-drafted rookie performs well above expectation, there is no way for him to be rewarded for three years.

Take Russell Wilson, for example. Tied the rookie record for touchdown throws. Set the rookie record for difference between TD throws and INTs (+16). 2nd all-time rookie passer rating. Clearly a good athlete in a good place, but the Seahawks can't pay him like he deserves. They have to keep with his rookie contract and pay him peanuts for the next two years.

There really needs to be some room for teams to reward players who perform.



Color me Confused. Is there some language that specifically keeps them from reworking a rookie contract? Contracts in the NFL are not guaranteed, and contracts are reworked, and re-done all the time. PLyaers hold out and get new deals all the time. I wont profess to understand the way that the rookie contracts were changed in the new CBA save to say that they put a wage scale in place that keeps the ridiculousness that was Jamarcus Russell and Sam Bradford from happening again.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Paxen » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:09 am

Players hold out and don't get new deals all the time. They don't have much leverage there.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:07 pm

Shoju wrote:Color me Confused. Is there some language that specifically keeps them from reworking a rookie contract? Contracts in the NFL are not guaranteed, and contracts are reworked, and re-done all the time. PLyaers hold out and get new deals all the time. I wont profess to understand the way that the rookie contracts were changed in the new CBA save to say that they put a wage scale in place that keeps the ridiculousness that was Jamarcus Russell and Sam Bradford from happening again.

Yes, a rookie deal is 4 years and can only be reworked after the 3rd year. A player can be cut and re-signed for a proper deal, but there's no way that Russell Wilson would ever clear waivers, so there's no way the Seahawks would cut him in order to rework his contract.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:42 pm

3 years, at 300k a year isn't that bad, and you know that his next deal is going to set him for life, and it doesn't stop the endorsement deals.

And RW is a pretty awesome person from all the interviews I've seen of him. He should have no problem making some endorsement bank while he waits three years.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:02 pm

Shoju wrote:3 years, at 300k a year isn't that bad, and you know that his next deal is going to set him for life, and it doesn't stop the endorsement deals.

And RW is a pretty awesome person from all the interviews I've seen of him. He should have no problem making some endorsement bank while he waits three years.

All true, but he's performing as well as RGIII and Andrew luck who are making $5 million a year instead of $300k, at a job where the median starter salary is right around $10 million a year. In light of those other numbers, $300k is chump change. His compensation should be consistent with his performance.

His entire 4-year contract is worth less than $3 million. By the time he completes his 3 years' "frozen" period, he will have earned just a bit over $2 million, while the median player at his position will have made $30 million.

That's a massive difference.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Paxen » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:08 pm

It's even worse for running backs. Their careers aren't often much longer than their rookie contract.

A a non-RGIII quarterback has a good chance of maintaining his level of play over at least a decade, and will play most of those years as one of the best-paid members on his teams as long as he's just an average starter (which is still a very high level, of course).
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:52 pm

On MLB News
http://tracking.si.com/2013/02/10/felix ... &eref=sihp
The King Felix contract is now on hold.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/02/09/red-s ... t=uk_t2_a9
And the Red Sox are shooting themselves in the foot already, well... leg in this case.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Koatanga » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:28 pm

Paxen wrote:It's even worse for running backs. Their careers aren't often much longer than their rookie contract.

A a non-RGIII quarterback has a good chance of maintaining his level of play over at least a decade, and will play most of those years as one of the best-paid members on his teams as long as he's just an average starter (which is still a very high level, of course).

They all get paid amazing amounts of money that makes anything look silly, but they are the guys out there doing the work and assuming the physical risks, so if someone is going to make 50% of the revenue it might as well be them.

So it makes any arguments looks silly, but still if Wilson goes on to have a lovely career and make $100 million more, and Luck does the same, Wilson will still end up $18 million short of Luck in career earnings.

Yes, I know, what's $18 million on a $100 million career and it won't make any difference to his day-to-day life, but it's still 18 million. That's a hospital wing.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:45 am

Koatanga wrote:
Shoju wrote:3 years, at 300k a year isn't that bad, and you know that his next deal is going to set him for life, and it doesn't stop the endorsement deals.

And RW is a pretty awesome person from all the interviews I've seen of him. He should have no problem making some endorsement bank while he waits three years.

All true, but he's performing as well as RGIII and Andrew luck who are making $5 million a year instead of $300k, at a job where the median starter salary is right around $10 million a year. In light of those other numbers, $300k is chump change. His compensation should be consistent with his performance.

His entire 4-year contract is worth less than $3 million. By the time he completes his 3 years' "frozen" period, he will have earned just a bit over $2 million, while the median player at his position will have made $30 million.

That's a massive difference.



Sure, if you are looking at the overall median of all QB's who start, it is a massive difference. But the more apt analogy would be to compare him to a list of QB's that include

Cam Newton
Andy Dalton
Blaine Gabbert
Andrew Luck
RG III
Brandon Weeden.

You can't compare him to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in terms of salary. Experience, track record, winning, those are all things that have given them the resume to have large amounts of money.

Is he underpaid? Probably, but it's not by 27 million dollars over three years.
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Re: All about sports

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:14 am

Percy Harvin might be on the trading block. Which team should take him?
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Re: All about sports

Postby Shoju » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:03 am

http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2013/story ... g-physical

What the holy flim flam?

I don't know if I'm cautiously optimistic, or scared to death that the pitching staff is a bunch of has been but not really ever were sort of semi good talents.

Wait... I jsut read that again. We signed Giambi too?! I uh.... huh.
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Re: All about sports

Postby halabar » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:21 am

Shoju wrote:http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2013/story/_/id/8933548/cleveland-indians-ink-daisuke-matsuzaka-minor-league-deal-pending-physical

What the holy flim flam?

I don't know if I'm cautiously optimistic, or scared to death that the pitching staff is a bunch of has been but not really ever were sort of semi good talents.

Wait... I jsut read that again. We signed Giambi too?! I uh.... huh.


Maybe you can work a trade with the A's for Colon.
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