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Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

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Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

Postby Welljel » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:53 am

I performed a search of the forum first but couldn't find any information anywhere regarding this, but has anyone evaluated the strength of the 4 piece PvP bonus on the retribution set compared to the traditional 4 piece PvE set?

For a quick explanation of why I'm interested in this here's the bonus itself: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=31829

So at any point where we're tanking it will increase our HoPo generation by 7.75HoPo/min. Looking at some logs on WoL where I first noticed this was being used in any fights it is providing a clear advantage in DPS (More SoTR usage for the same CS/HoTR used), here's a log proving it: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-396gynge1e7zqdiz/details/1/?s=6330&e=7006 (Hover over the spell names for their translation) but the question is how much of a trade off, is there for survivability. Clearly we would lose some secondary stats due to unavoidable crit itemisation, and we'd lose primary stats due to ilvl differences especially against heroic gear, but is the difference enough to consider using it especially in cutting edge content where DPS matters more.

If nobody's crunched these numbers I'll take a look over the weekend.
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Re: Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:36 pm

7.75 Hp/min is a little over 2 and a half SotRs every minute. At 150k Vengeance, that's 2.5*137k damage in 60 seconds, or about 5.7k DPS. Out of a potential ~140k DPS, so about a 4% increase. Nothing to sneeze at, but each ilvl is a 1%-2% power increase if my memory is correct, so the set bonus would be outdone by even a half-tier boost in ilvl (i.e. from 483 to 489).

The "proof" you linked was a Will of the Emperor log. The amount of DPS the tank is doing on that fight has very little to do with the set bonus, and more to do with the fact that this fight is heavily skewed towards tank DPS, especially for an undergeared group.
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Re: Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

Postby yappo » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:07 am

I'm doing the failsafe guide and as such I'm interested in what happens at the high 480 ilevel range.

The extra dps is of course interesting, but I'm also interested in the added effective health (physical damage only) resulting from, let's use a fairly modest assumption, an extra six seconds of 30% damage reduction per minute.

It looks like an overall 3% physical damage reduction spread over time. However, it's also kind of random, resulting (I guess) in a problem somewhat similar to avoidance (hammered or no damage).

Still, I personally would prefer a semi-reliable three seconds of 30% physical damage reduction occuring more often than before. After all, I guess this is one reason we go for haste right now.

In short, would the 4P bonus be worth it for a normal mode raider from a survival point of view? I'm going to assume the tank is using Conquest Point gear; helmet (Expertise/Mastery), shoulders (Haste/Expertise), hands (crit/hit) and chest (haste/crit). Legs are crit/haste giving the wearer a tiny amount more of the unwanted crit compared to the chest, but I guess which crit/whatever would be used depends on what suitable tanking gear the tank has for those three slots.
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Re: Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:06 pm

I don't think it's bad, but you're going to get more survivability in the form of stam and extra secondary stats by replacing those pieces with normal-mode gear. It's probably a decent alternative to LFR gear or below, though I'd probably still pick LFR tier for the set bonuses.
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Re: Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

Postby Thels » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:30 am

Admittedly, with bad luck, you might still be farming your T14 set right now, while conquest gear at least is a guaranteed drop about X amount of effort.
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Re: Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

Postby Fetzie » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:49 am

Thels wrote:Admittedly, with bad luck, you might still be farming your T14 set right now, while conquest gear at least is a guaranteed drop about X amount of effort.

Or you join a guild mid-tier and start at the bottom of the DKP pile.
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Re: Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

Postby Thels » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:21 am

Fetzie wrote:
Thels wrote:Admittedly, with bad luck, you might still be farming your T14 set right now, while conquest gear at least is a guaranteed drop about X amount of effort.

Or you join a guild mid-tier and start at the bottom of the DKP pile.


I was referring to LFR, which is on the same ilvl as Conquest gear (HoF and ToES that is), so using conquest gear over LFR gear can be a good choice, especially if they're itemized well. The 4 set PvE Tank bonus is nice, but indeed, if it's still out of your reach, the PvP bonus is probably interesting to pick up.

However, when you actually raid normal, the 496 items will blow the PvP set bonus out of the water, with or without PvE set bonus.
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Re: Retribution 4 piece PVP bonus

Postby yappo » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:29 am

Thanks for the answers. I suspected a full tierlevel's worth of difference in four slots (set bonus or not) would make the difference, but I still wanted to make a quick reality check.

So basically someone with an ample supply of CP could aim for the 4p PvP -bonus to kickstart their gear early on during a new raid-tier (in reality taking precautions against abysmal luck with RNG), but later, raw statistics, ought to see even a normal mode raider with bad luck decked out in better gear?
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