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Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Treck » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:33 pm

Personally, ive always said Stamina for progress, haste for farm.
And especially true for Terrace, since Haste is pretty crap compared to Stamina on ALL fights in there.
Haste might be slightly more "benefitial" on some fights, with added dps and raidhealing without making much differance to survivability (altho what fight there except the aoe fights are even dangerous?)
But for all of terrace, Stamina clearly wins if you compare the two stats, and even tho haste shines on AoE fights, thats honestly where Stamina is great as well, due to you having more buffert with HP before you have to shieldslam, even if haste gives you more uptime, but uptime isnt all that matters.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fetzie » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:23 pm

What do you think, try dropping my haste gems for stamina? It would put me at ~6k haste down from 8, and add 2000 stamina (40k life unbuffed) to my health pool.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Treck » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:29 pm

During progress of Terrance heroic, yes definately, go all out stamina.

For the rest, I guess it depends a bit if you are doing 10man or 25man.
But in general, if you are dying, go more stamina, if you dont really die and rather do more dps and stuff, haste is fine, especially when you get comfortable with the fights.
I really dont play enough 10man to make the case, but Ive done it once (all on 10man hc except sha) and the general feel I got was that the healing requirement wasnt that bad (or we just had the perfect healing comp)
And I would be incluned to go haste earlier on 10man than 25man, and I can see why more people who do 10man prefer the haste way.

But in general the Stamina way of gearing seems pretty unused, but I think it has a lot to due with haste beeing more "fun" during farm, and atleast now that we have more than one real way to gear, people see others beeing "farm" geared, and assume thats just the way to go.
Not saying its wrong or anything, people gear the way they want and feel the most comfortable with.

I also feel there is a little bit different playstlyle when you are maxed out in Stamina or Haste, and the Stamina way of playing just suits me better as well.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby daishan » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:40 am

I was a little high on gear for almost all of my guilds 1st kills, so had much more base stam than world top tanks that cleared everything months back.

I think you can make a good case for gearing haste on Heroic Protectors.
With solo tanking it on 10 man I'll be top single target dps in P1 (from all the veng), to get through P1 nice and fast so the raid healing doesn't get to harsh I'm in the 2nd group to get the dps buff. Helps with raid healing as well, I do about 11 mill raid healing (Battle insight and lights hammer) to the healers 31 mil and 28 mil. During progress on the fight we had a few tank deaths in P2 while the corrupted water was up but once I got my cd timings right that wasn't much of an issue, was then mostly down to the raid dieing in P3 where Haste helps more with higher dps and more raid healing.

I'd agree that Stam is best for Tsulong cos if your healers get the day phase right berserk wont be a problem and if they get it wrong a few extra % raid dps from a haste geared tank isn't going to be enough. Having said that I just stuck with my haste set up, having our DK go dps and taunt the 3rd breath of each night phase. We had some tank deaths to derping with cd's or taunts non of which I think stam would of helped with, the few times I died to just melee attacks more stam would of been nice, but that was more down to the whole raid slacking on resetting stacks making it very hard for the healers.

Lei Shi was the only boss I went all out stam for during progress, then the actual kill was while I was still in haste gear cos we only had time for 2 pulls before the end of the raid. Turned out getting high scary fog stacks during Getaway was much more important than a stam geared tank, I was always tanking Protectors in the add phase.

Only had a few hours on the Sha, P1 tank dmg is a joke so i'll be going full haste gear and dps trinkets until we can get into P2, I'm guessing I'll be wanting more stam for P2 and dread thrash, will hopefully get a look at it tonight.

I don't know about other 10 man tanks but for myself what I most want from Thecks brilliant theory crafting is some kind of feel for how much survivability I'm sacrificing when I choose to gem haste instead of stam.
I don't imagine there is but if there was some kind of plateau or just flattening of the curve for haste at higher rating levels it would be nice to know that the survivability sacrifice we're making for dps is getting bigger, or maybe even getting smaller?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby paendamonium » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Weapon question: I don't have time for a set raiding schedule (and PUGs on my realm are almost nonexistent), so all my gear is LFR or valor. I just got the Sha-Touched tank weapon, and I'm trying to figure out if it is worth the valor points to upgrade it, or if it's something that will be cast aside for basically any ilvl 502 weapon from the Throne of Thunder. I know that according to the initial calculations, a LFR Kilrak with both the 500 str gem and the prismatic slot is superior to the heroic ilvl 502 weapon; however, I know the prismatic slot can be applied to any weapon, and how does it compare to an upgraded Kilrak?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:38 pm

Unfortunately, I don't have item upgrades supported in the code yet. As of right now, you can estimate where an upgraded Kil'rak will end up by using the LFR and normal-mode versions. For example, if the 496 version generates X DPS and the 483 version gives Y DPS, then upgrading it by 4 ilvls will give you roughly:

Y+(X-Y)*4/13

Similarly for a 2/2 upgrade, just replace the 4 with an 8.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby paendamonium » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:51 pm

That makes sense in terms of the item level. Is the prismatic slot worth basically the same dps increase on each weapon? I.e., if I calculate the Kil'rak upgraded +8 with the 500 str gem and it's lower than the 502, would I assume that the 502 with pristmatic haste gem is better than the Kil'rak +8 and +Gem and +haste?

For some reason I'm having D&D flashbacks.... gotta love my Kil'rak +8 shortsword....
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby daishan » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:49 am

Looks like they're going with a GC proc rate of 12% from "When you dodge or parry a melee attack, or hit with Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous."
http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/85043-grand ... 6562-16577
Any idea how that works out for us?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:46 am

In what sense? I have survivability simulations done, but they're at home waiting to be written up. The MATLAB DPS code needs to be tweaked and run with the new coefficients yet, but it's not going to be a drastic change. Hit/Exp/Haste should all drop slightly relative to STR/AP/crit, but not by a lot (~7%, or 1-(1.12/1.2)).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby daishan » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:12 am

Was mostly meaning if it would move mastery or avoidance ahead of haste as survival stats, after re reading some posts on EJ and your blog it's looking like it'll still be haste :D
I'm just terribly impatient and want to see the numbers saying I can carry on been a haste whore (yes I know stam is better and I might have to re gem a little if the new 10 man bosses hit harder)
I look forward to seeing your results.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:01 pm

Don't worry, at 12%, you can carry on being a haste whore. :P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Schroom » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:54 am

yay, glad to hear :)

Theck, I can remember reading a blog-post of yours talking about the DR on the bonus block from mastery. But I am unable to find it anymore. could you post me that link if you got time? :) would be appreciated.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Thels » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:21 am

You mean this text?

104.5% is how much block you need to cover the combat table. Remember that Mists increased the level-based reduction in miss, dodge, parry, and block to 1.5% per level. So a level 93 boss gives you -4.5% miss, -4.5% parry, -4.5% dodge, and -4.5% block. Since block is on a second roll, we need 104.5% to achieve 100% block.

13% of that is guaranteed from base block and spec (3% base, 10% spec, neither are subject to DR). I’ve obviously also assumed that the 40% from the set bonus is not subject to DR. Everything else should be though. That leaves 51.5% block that we need to make up from sources that are subject to DR. That’s equivalent to 69.39% block before DR is applied, and I’m assuming it all comes from mastery.

The “free” 8% is the 8% mastery you get baseline at level 80 when you learn your mastery skill. The other 61.39% has to come from mastery rating. 61.39% mastery is 36834 rating from all sources. If you want to account for BoM, elixir, and food, subtract your 3950 from that to get 32884 rating from gear and enchants.


He wrote it on EJ.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Schroom » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:50 am

that helps already, but I remember reading a post about the block DR similar do the one about avoidance (this one: http://sacredduty.net/2012/07/06/avoida ... op-part-3/) with a nice diagram showing the graph for mastery(x) vs block(y) weeing exactly how much mastery you need to reach that 104.5% and so on. :)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:11 am

Are you thinking of this one? http://sacredduty.net/2012/09/14/avoida ... -followup/

Doesn't have a plot of block vs. mastery in it, but I don't recall ever making one of those either.
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