Remove Advertisements

patch 5.2 ?

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:36 pm

boneyjellyfish wrote:
Worldie wrote:
boneyjellyfish wrote:Here's an idea: successful parries increase your haste % by dodge % for x seconds. Haste rating no longer has any effect other than on white attacks except that 50% of it becomes parry rating. Numbers can obviously be tweaked.

Our haste gear retains most of its value but it gives us an incentive to stack parry and dodge. The more parry and dodge we have, the more fun our gameplay is and the better we are at tanking.

No offence but that sounds extremely complicate and unintuitive. Blizzard hates complicate things.


The seed of my idea was to turn the concept of "parry haste" into parry actually providing haste. I didn't think it was too complicated. :(


Too many interacting elements that have little to no connection to other known mechanics. Compare with their new iteration of GC: they took something existing (GC) and retrofitted it to fix one of their problem. Look at theck's other proposals - most of them are very basic.

It's the old K.I.S.S. approach.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3406
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:53 am

Also, in discussion, lets keep in mind that nowhere has anyone stated that they want us to stack dodge and/or parry. Just that they were unhappy with how low we valued dodge/parry compared to haste. They want to bring down the relative value of haste compared to the relative value of avoidance (which they want to increase so they both move towards the middle).
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1487
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Winkle » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:08 am

Surely haste will remain the more valuable stat though since it deceases the interval between CS use and thus increases the likely hood of GC procs.
Winkle
 
Posts: 591
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:36 am

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:32 pm

Paladin
Here is the current PTR Seal of Justice: Fills you with Holy Light, causing melee attacks (and Judgment) to apply Justice to your target. Justice: The attacking Paladin's next Templar's Verdict striking this target will also deal 25% weapon damage as Holy per application of Justice. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 15 sec. Undispellable. Using the TV consumes the stack. The Justice proc itself is not affected by mastery, nor is the mastery proc from TV counted for purposes of how hard Justice hits.

We understand the concern that this superficially looks a little like the old Taste for Blood. Taste for Blood was designed to be very random in order to limit the planning the warrior could do and limit its frequency. (It was also off the GCD, a buff rather than a debuff which made it feel even less predictable to the victim, and stackable with other big hits like Heroic Leap.) Justice is designed to be a very predictable mechanic in order to unload some decent damage even when GoaK and wings are on CD. Yes, it will be even bigger when stacked with CDs. Big hits that take a lot of planning and give their target plenty of notification and opportunities to counter are more acceptable than those that come out of the blue.

We also understand the concern that this forces paladins into taking Burden of Guilt if they want a snare. However, that is offset by the data that suggests some (but not all) paladins take Burden today (meaning the cost for taking it isn't too great), but hardly anyone uses the current Seal of Justice today; i.e. most Rets are running around with no snare at all.

On the other hand, if Ret still isn't going to use this new Justice, then there is no reason to change it, and we could just leave it as a dead spell for 5.2.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=40#799
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 11025
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:53 am

Nooska wrote:Also, in discussion, lets keep in mind that nowhere has anyone stated that they want us to stack dodge and/or parry. Just that they were unhappy with how low we valued dodge/parry compared to haste. They want to bring down the relative value of haste compared to the relative value of avoidance (which they want to increase so they both move towards the middle).

My concern is that any attempt to do that has to make dodge/parry more attractive than haste if it has any hope of being effective. And they were pretty much there with the "proc on avoidance only" version. Sliding some of that chance back to CS/HotR will shift the balance back towards haste, and might be enough such that we'll still prefer haste. As much fun as haste-stacking is, it isn't a good situation for tank plate.

Also, for those complaining about single-target DPS nerfs: it's not really a concern at this point. Buffing or nerfing damage is easy, they have more than enough knobs to do that. They're not going to make this change and accidentally nerf our DPS by a huge amount without bringing it back up elsewhere. They run simulations to identify and correct for those sorts of things. And if they don't catch it, I will. :)

I hope that we see them go to a dual-purpose GC model rather than a flat proc rate on CS/HotR/avoid though. The "Neglected Crusader" idea I came up with (see blog post) is a little rough around the edges, but the concept is solid.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7716
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Koatanga » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:52 am

The fundamental problem is that dodge/parry currently has no relation to our active mitigation. They are trying some proc-on-avoid things to give us some additional HP so that it's slightly more relevant to our AM, but that's extremely problematic as has already been discussed.

They could make dodge/parry increase the amount or length of our active mitigation, which would instantly vault those stats to om nom nom status because they would double-dip.
Retired. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 1972
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:04 am

Koatanga wrote:The fundamental problem is that dodge/parry currently has no relation to our active mitigation. They are trying some proc-on-avoid things to give us some additional HP so that it's slightly more relevant to our AM, but that's extremely problematic as has already been discussed.


Well, the only thing that *was* problematic with that model was the DPS. And even that was a minor quibble at worst.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3406
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:53 am

Looks like the background download has started.
I don't play WoW any more.
Donnan - Nangun - Kysen - Kysen - Mardun - Timkins

Mostly-Book Blog.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 6812
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:41 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Looks like the background download has started.


Image
User avatar
Teranoid
 
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:56 pm

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:59 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Looks like the background download has started.


So that means 90%+ of artwork is done, models are 95% complete, and we are 4-5 weeks out..
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9374
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:12 am

Image

So we get to choose which target between the trolls and the other faction we will oppose day by day.
Not bad.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3406
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:47 am

Looking at the rewards I'm not too crazy as you can only do either pve or pvp - I can't identify all the pvp rewards (which btw, also rewards less rep), is it honor, conquest and charms? if so, I would like if teh pve assignment also granted justice (especially with justice so hard to come by) - and ofcourse the pvp assignment also reward the same rep as the pve one.
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1487
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:51 am

Nooska wrote:Looking at the rewards I'm not too crazy as you can only do either pve or pvp - I can't identify all the pvp rewards (which btw, also rewards less rep), is it honor, conquest and charms?

Yep.

Nooska wrote:if so, I would like if teh pve assignment also granted justice (especially with justice so hard to come by)

Agreed.

Nooska wrote:- and ofcourse the pvp assignment also reward the same rep as the pve one.

Same rep, but also same amount of lesser charms and an amount of Valor that is "equivalent" to the amount of Conquest (i.e. that you can progress at the same speed).
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3406
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:00 am

Well the charms, sure, give pvp the same amount, though I don't see them actually having a real use for them (they are after all for extra chances at pve loot drops, but sure, for those (of us?) that may want to pursue both avenues).

I'm thinking the new loot chance items are going to be more expensive than 90 lesser charms per week at the amount this will reward, unless its a summary of the daily quests - meaning that there are 12 dailies of 2 charms each.
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1487
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby oldboyz » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:43 am

"stuff of the day"
if only it could be again a 7/week ... which allow us to decide WHEN & how much you allow you to play (irl>wow)


dailies in daily timeframe is quite painfull in the PITA way

more than half my roster has slow much of the farming by at least 80% (in the end, no more anyone care about capping Vaillance point, me included on all my toons)
oldboyz
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:48 am

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron

Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 0 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests