patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:44 pm

Zalaria wrote:That's not how I read it. It reads to me like "if you random into one of these, we'll give you a bonus for finishing it".


Pretty sure this is the case:

Level 90 players that use Dungeon Finder to look for a random Dungeon or Scenario will receive additional bonus Valor Points upon completing specific Dungeons or Scenarios.


Direct queuing doesn't reward any Valor at all, IIRC.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby econ21 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:00 pm

Not sure why the new rep factions give 476 belts at honored. You can already get 496 from Shieldwall.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Worldie » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:02 pm

Possible it's placeholders.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:42 pm

Darielle wrote:
Sagara wrote:In other words, business as usual, only that avoidance gets a 0.2 rating on AMR instead of 0.1... Let's see what Theck's maths will bring - it's too late at night, can't wrap my brains properly around statistics right now.


It should state a nerf at all levels of Haste, because as Kihra pointed out, 25% avoidance is fairly high, and is NOT something someone would have while stacking Haste in any way (the discussion in that WoW thread was about stacking avoidance vs stacking haste)

It's a little more complicated than that. Haste certainly got a nerf, and avoidance certainly got a buff. The preliminary numbers are looking like Control/Mastery has a slight edge in survivability, but the differences aren't that huge. But again, I haven't finished analyzing the numbers, as I just finished writing the simulation last night.

Hoping to have a blog post up later this week with results and analysis, if I get time.

Unfortunately, this throws a giant wrench into the DPS portion of the MATLAB code. We're still working on figuring out how to proceed with those simulations. It also borks my analytical survivability calculations for the moment, but those are less important since we have the monte-carlo results.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:25 pm

So the 5.2 factions will be handing out 522 ilvl gear. Assumining LFR boss kills do grant rep, if you are a slow normal raider or an LFR only raider, you'll be grinding LFR weekly for the rep, as it will fill 10 gear slots. Considering the ilvl difference, you might even forgoe LFR tier for set bonuses, depending on the itemization.

They did previously state that you can't double up on rep, so if you are clearing normal in a few weeks then it's not an issue.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:39 pm

Also be sure to spend you valor before 5.2, as well as conquest, they just announced that they doing the valor and conquest downgrades.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:19 pm

Are.... they moving the current VP gear down to JP or keeping it as VP?

If they're keeping it as VP, I'm hoping they have some good use for JP. If they're downgrading it, I hope there is an easier way to obtain JP...
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:24 pm

VP conversion doesn't make sense with the old VP gear previously being simply discounted - with the caps it would be "trap gear" for most people playing catchup, as its all below the new LFR ilvl wise.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Zalaria » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:27 am

From http://us.battle.net//wow/en/blog/8586239

Blizzard wrote:Patch 5.2 introduces a new raid tier and PvP season, and so the higher tier currencies will be down-converted during maintenance. This time around there won’t be a soft cap, old Valor items aren’t changing to cost Justice, and we’re adding a new rank of PvP gear. Let’s break down exactly how it’s all going to harmoniously work together.

PvE

Valor -> Justice

All Valor is converted to Justice

Justice -> Gold

Justice above the 4000 cap is converted to gold at a rate of 47 silver per point

So let’s say the realms go down for the 5.2 patch and you have 450 Valor and 3800 Justice. Because of the 4000 Justice cap, you’d log back in after the patch is released with 0 Valor, 4000 Justice, and be 117 gold and 50 silver richer after the conversion.

With 5.2 we won’t be changing current Valor items to cost Justice, but they will be much cheaper (discounts from 50-75% off their current costs). You’ll need to acquire Valor after the patch is released to buy pieces for their discounted rate, or to buy the new 5.2 Valor items, but we’re also introducing new items to spend your Justice on, including heirlooms and Pet Battle stones.

Charms
While Charms won’t be converted, Lesser Charms of Good Fortune will no longer be used to purchase Elder Charms in patch 5.2. Instead Lesser Charms will purchase Mogu Runes of Fate. They’ll be purchasable in the same way; once a week, 90 Lesser Charms can be converted to 3 Mogu Runes of Fate via a quest in your faction’s Shrine. Mogu Runes of Fate will be usable for bonus rolls on 5.2 raid and world bosses only. Elder Charms will continue to be used for bonus rolls on 5.0 raids and world bosses, and will now be acquired as item drops by killing enemies in the new 5.2 Thundering Isle outdoor zone.



PvP

Conquest -> Honor

All Conquest is converted to Honor

Honor -> Gold

Honor above the 4000 cap is converted to gold at a rate of 35 silver per point

For example, if I log out before the 5.2 maintenance period with 450 Conquest and 3800 Honor, my excess of 250 Honor would be converted, and so when I log in after 5.2 is released I would have 0 Conquest, 4000 Honor, and be 87 gold and 50 silver richer.

In 5.2 we’re introducing an entirely new tier of PvP gear that will be purchasable with Honor to help smooth out the gearing progression for new and returning players, alts, etc. so they can catch up and be a bit more successful coming in mid-season or even mid-expansion. You can read more about all the changes being made surrounding that in the PvP Gear blog we posted a few weeks back.

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Zalaria » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:31 am

Skye1013 wrote:Are.... they moving the current VP gear down to JP or keeping it as VP?

If they're keeping it as VP, I'm hoping they have some good use for JP. If they're downgrading it, I hope there is an easier way to obtain JP...

Current VP is being discounted 50-75%, and they're adding upgraded versions of old heirlooms and pet battle stones to JP. Whether that's "good use" is up to you.

Nooska wrote:VP conversion doesn't make sense with the old VP gear previously being simply discounted - with the caps it would be "trap gear" for most people playing catchup, as its all below the new LFR ilvl wise.

But you can't just go straight to the new LFR. It has a minimum ilvl of 480 (or something close to that), so you'll need to gear up before you can go there. Cheap 496's from the 5.1 reps will give you some huge bumps to get into the 5.2 LFR faster.


Unrelated to either of those... this thread is amusing. I love when the CMs make fun of the general forums.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Nooska » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:09 am

The intended catchup mechanism (going by GCs tweets and comments on the subject) is LFR, not the low ilvl valor gear.

Its not that its not consistent with earlier times, its just doesn't make sense to have the old gear still on valor, and all the valor you earned go "poof" when the patch hits, disincentivises earning vp unless you can get a piece of gear specifically (okay 3k VP is 1410G if you are JP capped as well, but thats hardly an incentive) - nearest incentive to earn VP now is to have full JP when the patch rolls in, since JP are pretty hard to get
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:37 am

So gc is hinting at the merging of dodge and parry into a single avoidance stat
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:06 am

They also said they will try to give a two week notice so you don't get trapped with valor that gets converted.

Given the discount on the prior gear, I don't mind them doing this change, since they are also increasing drop rates, gearing alts won't be too bad. Just make sure you are not sitting on any valor on alts.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:10 am

That Bashiok post also mentioned that they will indeed be nerfing the old raids by 10%. Seems reasonable since they still want people to progress through it, and will be giving the feats of strength for those that have completed it, all thought I think it should be titles.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:11 am

Nooska wrote:The intended catchup mechanism (going by GCs tweets and comments on the subject) is LFR, not the low ilvl valor gear.


The catch up mechanism is "Everything released before 5.2."
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby halabar » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:17 am

Flex wrote:
Nooska wrote:The intended catchup mechanism (going by GCs tweets and comments on the subject) is LFR, not the low ilvl valor gear.


The catch up mechanism is "Everything released before 5.2."


Yep, see the post linked above.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:10 pm

- We are going to try Grand Crusader proc'd by CS, HotR and dodge and parry (at lower chances for each).
- We are going to buff Seal of Justice and Seal of Righteousness damage. Neither of these Seals is seeing enough use. Justice was always intended to be a strong PvP Seal, and it just isn't right now. We haven't solidified numbers yet - I'm just sharing our intent.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:18 pm

Is this...ACTUAL iterative design for paladins? What has Rob Pardo been slipping into GC's gin? I'm not complaining, it is just...unusual.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:52 pm

I don't know if we're doing things right, but I suggest we. don't. stop. doing it. It's like the whole castle of cards is working just right!

Constructive discussion EVERYWHERE!!!
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:05 pm

- We are going to try Grand Crusader proc'd by CS, HotR and dodge and parry (at lower chances for each).

I actually like it this way more than on d/p only
- We are going to buff Seal of Justice and Seal of Righteousness damage. Neither of these Seals is seeing enough use. Justice was always intended to be a strong PvP Seal, and it just isn't right now.

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Nah,seriously,i'm glad they are finally looking into this
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:10 pm

Wonder what numbers they're looking at. This change'll make avoidance stats a little less valuable than they were going to be, and restore some of haste's value too.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Kihra » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:12 pm

Fenris wrote:
- We are going to try Grand Crusader proc'd by CS, HotR and dodge and parry (at lower chances for each).

I actually like it this way more than on d/p only


The problem I have with it is what problem is it really solving? I fail to see how this is going to suddenly make me want Dodge/Parry gear. I suspect it's still going to amount to a single target DPS nerf, since now you will have two overlapping events that could yield GC procs, and they're going to happen so close together that procs will end up being lost.

For example if I CS and then 0.2 seconds later I dodge, and both wanted to proc GC, that's not going to happen. Unless they set the numbers high enough to account for this overlap, it's probably just going to end up being an overall nerf.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:19 pm

They probably didn't like the amount of dps lost while not tanking/tanking but not taking melee swings due to no GC proccs.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Taeron » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:49 pm

Why don't they give a proc on dodge/parry to some other skill, rather than copy GC?

Like... A successful dodge or parry gives you a 6sec buff, that activates HoW for one cast and that HoW does 100% more damage and knocks the target down for 2sec.

In any case, I hoped it would something more innovative with avoidance added value than just moving around an existing proc.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:21 pm

OTOH, anything they *add* to the spec, will have to be paid down the line.
As the saying goes, there are no free lunch tickets. They don't need to buff us right now, just find a way to make avoidance more tasty. Linking it to active mitigation gives us more control over its use.

What would HoW brings anyway? It hits hard, yes, but brings zilch to the table apart from filling up an empty GCD. And the knockdown idea is pretty lackluster as well. Only B-plan would be to link HoPo generation to the proc, but then it just becomes "GC for HoW"

No, if another option was to be considered, I found two of theck's other ideas in his blog post interesting alternatives:
Avoidance can increases ShoR's mitigation (stackable, stack limit) or duration (a bit risky)
Avoidance can reduce the next ShoR's cost by 1 HoPo (looked very interesting, creating a nice dynamic)

But even thse would imply a nerf to our current toolkit, probably to ShoR's baseline mitigation to keep things balanced.

EDIT: I'm also getting the impression that we're at times trying to fish for buffs, and that's a dangerous game to play simply because of the lost credibility these discussions would suffer. AFAIK we're in no way weak, it's just the itemization that's out of whack.
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