patch 5.2 ?

[Nooska]

The intended catchup mechanism (going by GCs tweets and comments on the subject) is LFR, not the low ilvl valor gear.

Its not that its not consistent with earlier times, its just doesn't make sense to have the old gear still on valor, and all the valor you earned go "poof" when the patch hits, disincentivises earning vp unless you can get a piece of gear specifically (okay 3k VP is 1410G if you are JP capped as well, but thats hardly an incentive) - nearest incentive to earn VP now is to have full JP when the patch rolls in, since JP are pretty hard to get

[Klaudandus]

So gc is hinting at the merging of dodge and parry into a single avoidance stat

[halabar]

They also said they will try to give a two week notice so you don't get trapped with valor that gets converted.

Given the discount on the prior gear, I don't mind them doing this change, since they are also increasing drop rates, gearing alts won't be too bad. Just make sure you are not sitting on any valor on alts.

[halabar]

That Bashiok post also mentioned that they will indeed be nerfing the old raids by 10%. Seems reasonable since they still want people to progress through it, and will be giving the feats of strength for those that have completed it, all thought I think it should be titles.

[Flex]

The intended catchup mechanism (going by GCs tweets and comments on the subject) is LFR, not the low ilvl valor gear.

The catch up mechanism is "Everything released before 5.2."

[halabar]

The intended catchup mechanism (going by GCs tweets and comments on the subject) is LFR, not the low ilvl valor gear.

The catch up mechanism is "Everything released before 5.2."

Yep, see the post linked above.

[Flex]

- We are going to try Grand Crusader proc'd by CS, HotR and dodge and parry (at lower chances for each).
- We are going to buff Seal of Justice and Seal of Righteousness damage. Neither of these Seals is seeing enough use. Justice was always intended to be a strong PvP Seal, and it just isn't right now. We haven't solidified numbers yet - I'm just sharing our intent.

[Fetzie]

Is this...ACTUAL iterative design for paladins? What has Rob Pardo been slipping into GC's gin? I'm not complaining, it is just...unusual.

[Sagara]

I don't know if we're doing things right, but I suggest we. don't. stop. doing it. It's like the whole castle of cards is working just right!

Constructive discussion EVERYWHERE!!!

[Fenris]

- We are going to try Grand Crusader proc'd by CS, HotR and dodge and parry (at lower chances for each).

I actually like it this way more than on d/p only

- We are going to buff Seal of Justice and Seal of Righteousness damage. Neither of these Seals is seeing enough use. Justice was always intended to be a strong PvP Seal, and it just isn't right now.

Nah,seriously,i'm glad they are finally looking into this

[KysenMurrin]

Wonder what numbers they're looking at. This change'll make avoidance stats a little less valuable than they were going to be, and restore some of haste's value too.

[Kihra]

- We are going to try Grand Crusader proc'd by CS, HotR and dodge and parry (at lower chances for each).

I actually like it this way more than on d/p only

The problem I have with it is what problem is it really solving? I fail to see how this is going to suddenly make me want Dodge/Parry gear. I suspect it's still going to amount to a single target DPS nerf, since now you will have two overlapping events that could yield GC procs, and they're going to happen so close together that procs will end up being lost.

For example if I CS and then 0.2 seconds later I dodge, and both wanted to proc GC, that's not going to happen. Unless they set the numbers high enough to account for this overlap, it's probably just going to end up being an overall nerf.

[Fetzie]

They probably didn't like the amount of dps lost while not tanking/tanking but not taking melee swings due to no GC proccs.

[Taeron]

Why don't they give a proc on dodge/parry to some other skill, rather than copy GC?

Like... A successful dodge or parry gives you a 6sec buff, that activates HoW for one cast and that HoW does 100% more damage and knocks the target down for 2sec.

In any case, I hoped it would something more innovative with avoidance added value than just moving around an existing proc.

[Sagara]

OTOH, anything they *add* to the spec, will have to be paid down the line.
As the saying goes, there are no free lunch tickets. They don't need to buff us right now, just find a way to make avoidance more tasty. Linking it to active mitigation gives us more control over its use.

What would HoW brings anyway? It hits hard, yes, but brings zilch to the table apart from filling up an empty GCD. And the knockdown idea is pretty lackluster as well. Only B-plan would be to link HoPo generation to the proc, but then it just becomes "GC for HoW"

No, if another option was to be considered, I found two of theck's other ideas in his blog post interesting alternatives:
Avoidance can increases ShoR's mitigation (stackable, stack limit) or duration (a bit risky)
Avoidance can reduce the next ShoR's cost by 1 HoPo (looked very interesting, creating a nice dynamic)

But even thse would imply a nerf to our current toolkit, probably to ShoR's baseline mitigation to keep things balanced.

EDIT: I'm also getting the impression that we're at times trying to fish for buffs, and that's a dangerous game to play simply because of the lost credibility these discussions would suffer. AFAIK we're in no way weak, it's just the itemization that's out of whack.