patch 5.2 ?

[Klaudandus]

point there, but are they ever gonna remove hit and exp?

[theckhd]

But the argument still seems to be revolving around "ZOMG there's only one trinket in the current content for me".

Without looking at the loot tables, a heroic raider still might want a new 496 trinket from the new LFR due to stats or the on-use. Same even could apply for tier bonuses,especially when going for 4-piece.

I'll respect Theck's argument that the scaling should be toned down, but to think that 6 ilvls is magically going to keep every heroic raider out of the new LFR is really silly indeed.

Yeah, trinkets are the slot most affected here, since we're generally using ilvl 489 stamina trinkets.

But like I said, I'm not sure it's as big a deal anymore. 502 is still below the average ilvl you'd expect a serious heroic raider to have going into normal T15. There might be one or two slots where there's an upgrade in LFR for those players, but only for the first week or two. They'll likely be running it for valor anyway, and if not they can pick just the particular quarter in which their upgrade happens to drop.

One or two LFRs the first few weeks is a minor inconvenience. I'd rather do that than 90 VP worth of dailies anyway. And it will be obsoleted in a few weeks as we acquire 520 gear. It seems like a mountain/molehill situation to me. The important thing is that there's no incentive for groups to chain-run all of LFR 5 or 6 times a week in rotating groups to accumulate as much tier as possible for heroic progression.

[Newsom]

For 25 mans, sure. For 10s, there are items we still have never even seen drop yet...

Then drops are a bit weird this tier, for example there is only one non-spirit caster ring available across all 3 instances. Mages are left with either using a spirit ring (which I think actually works out to be BiS) or the 489 ring from valor. I'm sure they will be running LFR for a while.

[jere]

There's also the non-spirit ring from klaxxi exalted. I don't know how it rates against the others though (hit/mastery).

[Newsom]

There's also the non-spirit ring from klaxxi exalted. I don't know how it rates against the others though (hit/mastery).

Still 489 though. There's also one from Galleon I think (496) but good luck killing him let alone seeing that drop. Point is a lot of casters will need a new ring.

[theckhd]

Then drops are a bit weird this tier, for example there is only one non-spirit caster ring available across all 3 instances. Mages are left with either using a spirit ring (which I think actually works out to be BiS) or the 489 ring from valor. I'm sure they will be running LFR for a while.

Yeah, drops are sort of weird this tier. I didn't know about the caster ring issue, but you see it even within tank and plate DPS gear. I suspect that HoF/ToES's ilvl was initially 489, but they decided to bump it up late in beta. That would explain some of it (because then rep gear and MSV gear filling gaps would be perfectly logical).

[Jezakael]

Still 489 though. There's also one from Galleon I think (496) but good luck killing him let alone seeing that drop. Point is a lot of casters will need a new ring.

There is also a 496 valor ring from Dominance Offensive/Operation Shieldwall

[Sagara]

Interesting side-effect, it is mostly useless to upgrade anything from N MGV or LFR, unless it is crazy-itemized, as their fully upgraded ilvl will be trumped by the LFR loot from T15.
You're better off upgrading Heroic loot or Normal HoF/ToES loot.

In short, unless the new shield sucks even MORE (is that even possible?), don't spend Valor on Normal Steelskin.

[econ21]

In short, unless the new shield sucks even MORE (is that even possible?),...

No, it's the same itemisation as the old shield:

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/94945-5-2-ra ... s-8-loot-2

Blizzard like their avoidance.

[Sagara]

So it suck only just as much?
Better spend the Valor elsewhere :-p

[Pruke]

Frustrated by the fact they made LFR ilvl 502.

[Sagara]

Same. 496 would be more like it, I think.

[Promdates]

No, it's the same itemisation as the old shield:

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/94945-5-2-ra ... s-8-loot-2

Blizzard like their avoidance.

All they did was take old raid items and bump them up for testing. You honestly think these are "final" items we'll see come 5.2?

[Darielle]

^^

The weapons even have Sha Sockets in them, the same icons and the same stats. Everything is a placeholder for now.

I suspect that HoF/ToES's ilvl was initially 489, but they decided to bump it up late in beta. That would explain some of it (because then rep gear and MSV gear filling gaps would be perfectly logical).

I think they did that too, as well as sort of put in Item Upgrades without really thinking where to go with it, and that's bumped up "gear people have" by a non-trivial amount. I would fully suspect given that Heroic Thunderforged is at 541 that the T16 Normal will be over 550, if they apply the same logic as this tier to it.

[econ21]

All they did was take old raid items and bump them up for testing. You honestly think these are "final" items we'll see come 5.2?

Well, now I don't. I just cut and paste the link from MMO Champion. But yes, what else was I supposed to think reading this intro to the links:

The latest PTR build added some of the new raid gear from the Throne of Thunder.