patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:42 pm

Paladin
- For Protection, we do have plans to try and lower the value of haste relative to dodge and parry. We don't want to make haste terrible for paladins, but we agree that it's odd for it to be better than more traditional tank stats. It might require a nerf to Shield of the Righteous to do this, but our goal is not to nerf survivability overall. We just wanted to provide you some context if you see odd changes to tanking abilities.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=45#884

It was good while it lasted.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:44 pm

Oooooh, boy. Let's just hope this works...
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:00 pm

They've had the info that haste is a totally awesome stat and traditional tank stats kinda suck in comparison for how long now?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:04 pm

Well, it would have been though for them to change that in 5.1, it was insanely short, and they had to focus on really broken parts. I guess now is the best time to go about fixing the "non-critical" stuff, also considering we won't have to re-do our gearing mid-tier.
It don't blame the timing to be honest. It's more the roller coaster I see down the line without any idea where we'll be landing in the end.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:14 pm

They knew this well before live, and for about the last two months in beta it was just damage tweaking to CS, hotr and the likes... Oh and lvl 90 abilities.

I know cuz I was the guy doing just about all the logs
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:24 pm

/pessimist mode on

They are not going to mess it up in any way..........

/pessimist mode off


Glad i'll have to throw away half of my gear then (not like we'll get new pieces as soon as 5.2 hits the servers)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:28 pm

Now, if we can get Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie, get the Elements of Raiding and use them on DisGCord... maybe we can avoid it from becoming really bad...
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:36 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Now, if we can get Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie, get the Elements of Raiding and use them on DisGCord... maybe we can avoid it from becoming really bad...

You forgot
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:37 pm

well, bldavis is RD, with aubade as a backup, and halabar is a wildcard, since he has the Mysterious MDW =P
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:40 pm

oh god stop the brony-mobile, i want to get off
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:40 pm

holy crap..we really do have almost all the main ponys covered
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:44 pm

Sabindeus wrote:oh god stop the brony-mobile, i want to get off

:lol:
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:54 pm

Fenris wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:oh god stop the brony-mobile, i want to get off

:lol:

he just wishes he was cool enough to be a brony :twisted:
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Teranoid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:57 pm

Yeah.. "cool". That's totally the word I'd use to describe it.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:04 pm

Ok, looks like my attempt at humor derailed things a wee bit too far.

While I agree with Sagara about the timing being right for a change, it is still no excuse whatsoever they waited until now to do something about it -- specially since they knew well before this went live.

Like I said before, the last two months of beta were pretty much just adjusting how much damage or heal this or that ability would do, rather than the mechanics of our active mitigation.

Now, I agree with Fenris, we don't know how these changes are gonna leave us going into 5.2 now...

And I have no fucking idea how NERFING SotR would do anything to solve our love for Haste, specially since our love for haste is tied to:
a) Hit and Exp due to our need to NOT MISS our HP generators
b) the double roll on block chance greatly devaluing not just mastery, but avoidance in general.

The only way I can see dodge/parry being somewhat good is if we get somehow a dodge/parry proc to refresh our abilities or something like that, and I still doubt it because we still love Hit/Exp about anything else (at least until we reach the caps)
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:19 pm

Teranoid wrote:Yeah.. "cool". That's totally the word I'd use to describe it.

sorry did i forget the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] markers? my bad

hey man, to each their own, im sure there are things you like that i would look at and go WTF


as for the changes...i am starting to think they just put random brain pukes on a bunch of post it notes and put them on a dart board and go
we made this change *throws dart* for this reason *throws another dart* to fix this problem *throws 2 darts, just in case*
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:32 pm

@Ghostcrawler no offense, but you guys knew about Haste and Prot Paladins since well before live.
Re: @Zackfig At the time we thought it was an undergeared problem because dodge doesn't matter when failing a dodge kills you.
Re: @Zackfig We still sort of suspect that's the problem but it's become such a mantra that it's worth changing anyway.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:23 pm

And I have no fucking idea how NERFING SotR would do anything to solve our love for Haste, specially since our love for haste is tied to:
a) Hit and Exp due to our need to NOT MISS our HP generators
b) the double roll on block chance greatly devaluing not just mastery, but avoidance in general.


While I'm sure that they'll come up with a stupid reason for why they never did it (they've always overvalued avoidance or total damage reduction compared to players, and never really understood why people don't quite buy in that way), hitting ShoR WOULD affect the value of Haste. It would also affect Mastery, Hit and Exp, but it would hit Haste relative to Dodge/Parry if more of our mitigation was tied to avoidance and passive effects and less to ShoR, especially if they hit ShoR's effectiveness and then do something odd to tie avoidance into that crowd (like Dodge/Parry tying into HP in some roundabout way, or amplifying Mastery, or something odd like that) to "even out".
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:40 pm

Darielle wrote:
And I have no fucking idea how NERFING SotR would do anything to solve our love for Haste, specially since our love for haste is tied to:
a) Hit and Exp due to our need to NOT MISS our HP generators
b) the double roll on block chance greatly devaluing not just mastery, but avoidance in general.


While I'm sure that they'll come up with a stupid reason for why they never did it (they've always overvalued avoidance or total damage reduction compared to players, and never really understood why people don't quite buy in that way), hitting ShoR WOULD affect the value of Haste. It would also affect Mastery, Hit and Exp, but it would hit Haste relative to Dodge/Parry if more of our mitigation was tied to avoidance and passive effects and less to ShoR, especially if they hit ShoR's effectiveness and then do something odd to tie avoidance into that crowd (like Dodge/Parry tying into HP in some roundabout way, or amplifying Mastery, or something odd like that) to "even out".


They can nerf sanctity of battle... and hit our haste overall, but nerfing SotR straight out seems counter-intuitive as it would most likely devalue mastery as well, since SotR mitigation is tied to how much mastery we have...

you're pretty much right, they would need to make us a bit more passive somewhere else to make up for it.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:15 pm

The warrior set looks... interesting

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:28 pm

They can nerf sanctity of battle... and hit our haste overall, but nerfing SotR straight out seems counter-intuitive as it would most likely devalue mastery as well, since SotR mitigation is tied to how much mastery we have...


It would, but since they seem to be specifically concerned about D/P and not just Haste, that might be their goal.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:37 pm

Darielle wrote:
They can nerf sanctity of battle... and hit our haste overall, but nerfing SotR straight out seems counter-intuitive as it would most likely devalue mastery as well, since SotR mitigation is tied to how much mastery we have...


It would, but since they seem to be specifically concerned about D/P and not just Haste, that might be their goal.


still not seeing it how that would prop D/P.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:20 pm

Klaudandus wrote:The warrior set looks... interesting

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First thing i though yesterday

"That kind of looks like a paladin tier"


First thing that our monk tank (ex-warrior) said looking at it

"Hey,that looks like a paladin"

First thing one of our dps warriors said

"is that the paladin set?"

Nothing of this is made up btw
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:56 pm

still not seeing it how that would prop D/P.


Anything they do to the Haste-Hit-Expertise-Mastery chain in theory weakens them compared to Dodge-Parry. Given their apparent goal is to "not nerf survivability", that means whatever compensation will in theory make Dodge-Parry both "better than before" and "better compared to Hit-Haste-Exp-Mastery".

Now of course that doesn't mean we'll actually try to stack them.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:02 pm

Darielle wrote:that means whatever compensation will in theory make Dodge-Parry both "better than before" and "better compared to Hit-Haste-Exp-Mastery".

Now of course that doesn't mean we'll actually try to stack them.


I'm uncertain how they can make random chance avoidance attractive. You'd think they'd've learned by now that tanks hate randomness.
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