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[10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

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[10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby protadinXX » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:27 pm

Credit to:
-http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32979
-http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/11/17/the-light-and-how-to-swing-it-talents-and-glyphs-for-tanking-mo/
-Belloc for suggestions
-econ21 for suggestions
-Gab for suggestions

Image

MSV Glyphs:
Glyph of the Alabaster Shield (check change on Elegon)
Glyph of Divine Protection (check change on Elegon and Feng)
Glyph of Battle Healer

Normal Talents:
Tier 1: Pursuit of Justice (check changes on Stone Guard, Spirit Kings, Elegon, and Will of the Emperor)
Tier 2: Fist of Justice
Tier 3: Sacred Shield
Tier 4: Unbreakable Spirit (check changes on Stone Guard, Feng, Garajal, and Spirit Kings)
Tier 5: Holy Avenger
Tier 6: Light's Hammer (check change on Garajal and Will of the Emperor)



Image
Stone Guard:
- TIER 4 Talent: to HAND OF PURITY (to counter Rend Flesh)
- IF COBALT is up AND your raid wants you to pop mines (at 90% cobalt petrification for reduced damage), then TIER 1 Talent: to Speed of Light
- If tanking single guard, try to get within range of other players, if at all possible, while keeping max distance for Battle Healer and boss debuff
- Drop LH on the melee after every explosion



Image
Feng:
- Tier 1 Talent: back to Pursuit of Justice
- Tier 4 Talent: keep Hand of Purity (to counter debuff stacks on you and/or off-tank)
- Glyph: SWITCH OUT Divine Protection Glyph for Focused Shield
- Drop LH on the entire raid group during the group-up sections



Image
Garajal:
- Tier 4 Talent: to Clemency (HoS and HoP on tanks)
- Tier 6 Talent: to Holy Avenger (to pop during Frenzy)
- Glyph: SWITCH OUT Focused Shield Glyph for Divine Protection
- Move to be in range of other players for Battle Healer
- Drop LH for Voodoo Dolled people (suggest they come within range of me and boss for bonus dps)
If needed for survival:
- Hand of Protection on self or other tank when Garajal begins fixate DURING FRENZY (ensure up and ready for frenzy phase at 20%)
- Divine Shield when fixated DURING FRENZY



Image
Spirit Kings:
- TIER 1 Talent: to Speed of Light (for dodging flanks, as needed)
- TIER 4 Talent: keep Clemency IF you will be on tap to remove Rain of Arrows, otherwise back to Unbreakable Spirit
- Tier 6 Talent: back to Light's Hammer
- Drop LH on entire raid group for various portions (insanity, especially)



Image
Elegon:
- TIER 1 Talent: to Speed of Light OR Long Arm of the Law (your preference)
- Glyph: SWITCH OUT Divine Protection for Focused Shield
- Glyph: SWITCH OUT Alabaster Shield for Holy Wrath

- Drop LH on melee/ranged after every Total Annihilation during Elegon encounter; great cooldown for phase 3 as well.



Image
Will of the Emperor:
- TIER 1 Talent: to Pursuit of Justice
- Glyph: SWITCH OUT Focused Shield Glyph for Divine Protection
- Glyph: SWITCH OUT Holy Wrath Glyph for Alabaster Shield

- If no other Paladin, suggest melee stick on my side during Titan Gas phases for Battle Healer and LH
- Drop LH on every gas phase of Will of the Emperor, and 1-2 casts in-between (helps heal up melee who fail at the dance, too).

Random:
- Drop LH on yourself and the boss any time you won't need it in the next minute and you have a free GCD.
Last edited by protadinXX on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby Belloc » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:23 pm

Suggested Changes

Stone Guard: Speed of Light. Why? When Cobalt is the active target, it is desireable to pop as many mines as possible. Speed of Light + Hand of Freedom = a lot of popped mines.

Feng: Clemency. Two Hands of Sacrifice will help your co-tank survive and will also provide you with more Vengeance while not tanking.

Garajal: Clemency. This will do two things: One, it provides you with vengeance and, two, it reduces the amount of damage voodoo doll targets take.

Also, Holy Avenger. Holy Avenger is, essentially, an on-demand survival cooldown on any fight with a lot of physical damage. Using Holy Avenger while actively tanking means that you'll have Shield of the Righteous up for most of your tanking duration. This, in turn, reduces the damage voodoo dolls take. I can see no reason to use any other talent than this one for this fight.

Spirit Kings: Speed of Light, again. Speed of Light is very helpful for avoiding Flanking Orders. Also, Clemency. Rain of Arrows can be removed via Hand of Protection. Two hands are better than one!

Elegon: I personally use Speed of Light to allow for quicker stack removal. Long Arm of the Law provides a similar benefit with a shorter duration and a shorter cooldown. Both are fine choices.

Will of the Emperor: I feel that Execution Sentence is a better choice on this fight, though I don't feel any of our final tier talents are particularly strong. Execution sentence can provide a steady heal on yourself during non-dance portions of the fight (the parts that are actually dangerous for tanks).
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby econ21 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:45 am

Having finally downed Elegon on 10N last night, I would not switch out glyph of battler healer. It's very useful for the nasty burn phase at the end which really stretched out 2 healers. Following advice recevied on this site, I solo tanked that phase so that the glyph would support the healers. (We struggled for a long time until I realised I was using seal of truth not insight, oops!).

I agree glyph of holy wrath should be switched in. But I would take out alabaster shield. I do use alabaster shield as a default, but it's the one I sacrifice if I need a situational glyph. I regard battle healer as mandatory and divine protection as close to that, except on a few magic intensive fights (when even then I typically don't bother switching).
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby protadinXX » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:51 pm

Thanks, guys. Adjusted per suggestions.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby Gab » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:50 am

Belloc wrote:Feng: Clemency. Two Hands of Sacrifice will help your co-tank survive and will also provide you with more Vengeance while not tanking.


Afaik Sac does not give vengeance. Purity is far superior for damage reduction on this fight for both yourself and your co-tank you can cover 6 seconds of every two stack.

Belloc wrote:Garajal: Clemency. This will do two things: One, it provides you with vengeance and, two, it reduces the amount of damage voodoo doll targets take.


Same thing, Sac doesn't give vengeance. Taunting off the fixate tank gives you half (?) of their current vengeance. Clemency is still strong here though for Sacing and Boping tanks.

Belloc wrote:Will of the Emperor: I feel that Execution Sentence is a better choice on this fight, though I don't feel any of our final tier talents are particularly strong. Execution sentence can provide a steady heal on yourself during non-dance portions of the fight (the parts that are actually dangerous for tanks).


LH will provide far more over all healing. Best to drop it on the ranged/healer group during Titan Gas so that healers can spend more GCDs on tanks when they are getting smashed.

protadinXX wrote:Elegon:
- Glyph: SWITCH OUT Divine Protection for Focused Shield


I guess this depends on how good your group is at killing sparks but I'd argue Final Wrath is very strong for the burn phase while unglyhped shield will hit all 3 sparks on one side. If your group is fine with orbs then focused shield might be a good choice.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby Belloc » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:31 am

Gab wrote:
Belloc wrote:Feng: Clemency. Two Hands of Sacrifice will help your co-tank survive and will also provide you with more Vengeance while not tanking.


Afaik Sac does not give vengeance. Purity is far superior for damage reduction on this fight for both yourself and your co-tank you can cover 6 seconds of every two stack.

Belloc wrote:Garajal: Clemency. This will do two things: One, it provides you with vengeance and, two, it reduces the amount of damage voodoo doll targets take.


Same thing, Sac doesn't give vengeance. Taunting off the fixate tank gives you half (?) of their current vengeance. Clemency is still strong here though for Sacing and Boping tanks.

Belloc wrote:Will of the Emperor: I feel that Execution Sentence is a better choice on this fight, though I don't feel any of our final tier talents are particularly strong. Execution sentence can provide a steady heal on yourself during non-dance portions of the fight (the parts that are actually dangerous for tanks).


LH will provide far more over all healing. Best to drop it on the ranged/healer group during Titan Gas so that healers can spend more GCDs on tanks when they are getting smashed.

protadinXX wrote:Elegon:
- Glyph: SWITCH OUT Divine Protection for Focused Shield


I guess this depends on how good your group is at killing sparks but I'd argue Final Wrath is very strong for the burn phase while unglyhped shield will hit all 3 sparks on one side. If your group is fine with orbs then focused shield might be a good choice.

Sac almost certainly does provide vengeance. In most cases, clemency should result in less overall damage done on fights like Feng and Garajal due to the reduced fight length as a result of the vengeance gain.

As far as Feng goes, I'd probably use Purity when solo tanking, since stacks get higher than 2. When using two tanks, though, the vengeance gain and damage reduction of sac outweighs the damage reduction of purity by virtue of reducing overall fight length.

Also, I'm not aware of any reason that taunting off the Garajal fixate tank would provide you with any vengeance. Taunting sets your threat equal to the current target of the mob you taunt, but should have no effect on vengeance. Furthermore, Garajal is immune to taunt when he is fixated.

I don't have absolute, 100% proof that Hand of Sacrifice provides vengeance, but I can't think of anywhere else I would've gotten vengeance on fights like Blademaster where I'm not taking any damage for extended periods of time, save for the damage transferred by Sacrificing shortly before the 2nd overwhelming strike.
Last edited by Belloc on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby Gab » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:41 am

Belloc wrote:Sac gives vengeance. In most cases, clemency should result in less overall damage done on fights like Feng and Garajal due to the reduced fight length as a result of the vengeance gain.


Could have swore it didn't although I haven't extensively tested it personally. If that's the case then Clemency could be a good choice over Purity for Feng although YMMV.

And yeah I definitely agree that Clemency is fantastic for Gara'jal was just questioning the vengeance aspect.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby Belloc » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:44 am

I'll try to remember to test it, but I won't be able to tonight. I'm still almost 100% sure that it does give vengeance, though.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby Rhiannon » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:53 am

It doesn't, my paladin tested it on tank swaps when I suggested it.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby protadinXX » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:09 pm

Tested HoS in HoF and Terrace last night. Neither created vengeance when it was non-existent nor refreshed the timer when it already existed.

Adjusted suggestions accordingly.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby Gab » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:32 pm

Belloc wrote:Also, I'm not aware of any reason that taunting off the Garajal fixate tank would provide you with any vengeance. Taunting sets your threat equal to the current target of the mob you taunt, but should have no effect on vengeance. Furthermore, Garajal is immune to taunt when he is fixated.


Taunting Hozen Face-Smashers from a bear with 4.2k AP was immediately giving me 2.1k AP. Gara'Jal gives around 25k or so depending on the timing relative to his special attacks and grasp/voodoo damage.

Edit: On 10 heroic.
Last edited by Gab on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby daishan » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:50 pm

I think taunting gives 50% ish of the difference between your veng and the other tanks, I always seem to gain between 1-3k veng when constantly taunting off my co tank on Gara Jal.
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Re: [10N] MSV Talents & Glyphs per Encounter

Postby Darielle » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:18 pm

Yes, taunting on Gara'jal (or anything with a fixate) definitely gives Vengeance without ever being swung at. In theory, it probably works on Garalon as well, but I'm always a Cat so haven't played with it too much.
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