patch 5.2 ?

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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:22 am

Flex wrote:Paladins be a whiny bunch.

When neither the lead systems developer nor his subordinates even acknowledge our questions, which are based in empirical testing and sound reasoning while holding an intense discourse with players asking questions about the other tank classes and writing pages of twitter answers on the topic (and even forgetting to even MENTION the paladin T15 bonuses in the thread explaining their intent with the bonuses), you can perhaps excuse us for being a bit pissed off.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:33 am

Delicious whining.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Thels » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:58 am

I'm not too bothered about Protection not performing all too well when soloing. Sure, it's occasionally a drag to have to constantly respec (though it helps if you macro it, so you only need to click 2 buttons each time you want to respec), and it's very annoying if you do it at the farm, and have the farm disappear. But it's a little odd to call it fine. It takes forever to beat like 2 of those rodents on your farm, while on ret, you click 2 or 3 buttons and they're down.

As for PvP, I don't think they ever thought Tank specs should be viable in PvP.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby jere » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:51 am

Fetzie wrote: and you can never pull more than 5-6 together to try and get some Vengeance because the damn things go on evade if you run too far.


I can't see the youtube video from here, so out of curiosity is this in reference to certain mobs? I find in general that what you state isn't the case for most mobs. You just have to make sure to stop and hit everything (HotR works good here) evey 5 or 6 seconds. I don't usually have trouble pulling 10+ things as long as I remember pop speed of light run back, HotR everything, and then continue on to pulling. There are a few mobs that are actually an issue (the cranes at the temple of the red crane area come to mind), but most mobs, including the rare spawns are not tethered to a location. At least most of the ones associated with dailies/quests/rares.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Thels » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:33 am

jere wrote:I can't see the youtube video from here, so out of curiosity is this in reference to certain mobs?


The youtube vid is more of a smilie. It's not WoW related.

And there's an item dropping from one of the rare spawns that pulls all mobs in a 40 yard radius. Might be helpful when soloing as prot.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:06 am

jere wrote:
Fetzie wrote: and you can never pull more than 5-6 together to try and get some Vengeance because the damn things go on evade if you run too far.


I can't see the youtube video from here, so out of curiosity is this in reference to certain mobs? I find in general that what you state isn't the case for most mobs. You just have to make sure to stop and hit everything (HotR works good here) evey 5 or 6 seconds. I don't usually have trouble pulling 10+ things as long as I remember pop speed of light run back, HotR everything, and then continue on to pulling. There are a few mobs that are actually an issue (the cranes at the temple of the red crane area come to mind), but most mobs, including the rare spawns are not tethered to a location. At least most of the ones associated with dailies/quests/rares.


I must be one of the few that actually *likes* questing as prot (read: trying to grab a dozen or more mobs and mowing them down). Would I like it to go faster? Sure, but I like trying to see how much I can pull at a time, and using the time to work on practicing my rotation and survival. And I imagine 'I want quest kills to go faster' really applies to everyone.

I think I've run into some evade issues, but not terribly many, and usually that's when I don't keep damaging mobs or I move em like 100 yds or more. The most annoying are some of the quest mobs that seem to randomly evade bug out just as you grab enough of them. For me, it's when all I have to do is kill 1 high-health mob that I get annoyed, but it's never been enough to switch to ret for it.

*shrug*
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby honorshammer » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:56 pm

Fetzie wrote:
Flex wrote:Paladins be a whiny bunch.

When neither the lead systems developer nor his subordinates even acknowledge our questions, which are based in empirical testing and sound reasoning while holding an intense discourse with players asking questions about the other tank classes and writing pages of twitter answers on the topic (and even forgetting to even MENTION the paladin T15 bonuses in the thread explaining their intent with the bonuses), you can perhaps excuse us for being a bit pissed off.


The Tankadin T15 bonuses were added to that thread and I linked the comments in an earlier post in this thread.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby jere » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:44 pm

benebarba wrote:I must be one of the few that actually *likes* questing as prot (read: trying to grab a dozen or more mobs and mowing them down). Would I like it to go faster? Sure, but I like trying to see how much I can pull at a time, and using the time to work on practicing my rotation and survival. And I imagine 'I want quest kills to go faster' really applies to everyone.

I like it as well. I prefer the playstyle when I quest.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:52 pm

But it's a little odd to call it fine. It takes forever to beat like 2 of those rodents on your farm, while on ret, you click 2 or 3 buttons and they're down.


On a 16-farm, I just pull all the virmen/birds at once, pop AW/HA and pretty much everything is dead by the time AW ends. Not sure what the problem is.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Thels » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:08 am

Darielle wrote:
But it's a little odd to call it fine. It takes forever to beat like 2 of those rodents on your farm, while on ret, you click 2 or 3 buttons and they're down.


On a 16-farm, I just pull all the virmen/birds at once, pop AW/HA and pretty much everything is dead by the time AW ends. Not sure what the problem is.


As Prot or as Ret? Admittedly, if there are 8 or 9 vermin, doing it as prot is probably around as fast as ret, due to how vengeance works. I still have no problem pulling them all at once and AoEing them down as ret. But if there's like only 1 or 2, you get zero vengeance as prot, and killing those few mobs takes like forever.

Ret is insanely much faster than Prot against 1 or 2 targets, and against a big group I can still survive well. Even if I'm taking a lot of damage and have to switch to SoI, I'm usually still doing more damage as Ret than as Prot, so I don't really see an intensive to go Prot for anything under 5 man HCs, where vengeance becomes enough to make Prot worthwhile.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Winkle » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:12 am

So to get this straight, a DPS spec is better at DPS than a tank spec....ok...got it.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:46 am

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2505 ... us-issues/
- The Protection 4pc counts damage after all mitigation, and does count absorbed damage.
- The Retribution 4pc set bonus has changed. It now has a chance for Hammer of the Righteous or Crusader Strike to cause your next Divine Storm to cause extra damage to your target. The idea being that you might swap from TV to DS when you get the proc, so that the RNG is something you can actually do something with rather than it just being RNG for extra damage.
- Retribution now does 50% extra healing with Flash Heal. The Selfless Healer talent has been reduced to 20/40/60% bonus healing.
- Sacred Shield's absorb effect is now dispellable, but the periodic effect is not.
- Blinding Light has a 1.8 sec cast for Holy only. We think Holy's CC chains are too strong at the moment, but we don't think Ret or Prot need the nerf.


Still unsure how the 4pc bonus is any good for us. Seems way lackluster imo.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:02 am

The 4 piece is actually quite strong, but it's going to vary significantly based on content type. It'll be much weaker in 10N and 25N than in 10H and 25H. In 25H it's probably enough extra HP to "sotr-cap" for the duration of DP.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:49 am

It feels like Blizz is trying really hard to bring me back. The DPS 2pc bonus for Dk's spawns Troll Ghosts to fight for you..... I.... Dear god. This is killing me.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:55 am

Shoju wrote:It feels like Blizz is trying really hard to bring me back. The DPS 2pc bonus for Dk's spawns Troll Ghosts to fight for you..... I.... Dear god. This is killing me.


*hands shoju a paper bag to breathe into*


This too will pass.


On a serious note: any indication how/if JP/VP price conversion will happen? i.e. is the rep gear staying the same ilvl and rep requirements but going to JP, or something completely different?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:08 am

Shoju wrote:It feels like Blizz is trying really hard to bring me back. The DPS 2pc bonus for Dk's spawns Troll Ghosts to fight for you..... I.... Dear god. This is killing me.

I think playing to catch up will drive you back out within 7 days
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:11 am

Gear upgrades planned to be added back in non-raid content patch 5.3. There's a lot of gear maintenance on their end they introduced in MoP. Lowering PvP item level between raid tiers while increasing the PvP power just so people can't use it to jump into the new LFR seems kludgy at best.
Valor Gear will be behind both the daily and raid rep. If I had to guess upgrades to weaker slots will be in the daily rep and more potent slots will be raid rep.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:42 am

Klaudandus wrote:
Shoju wrote:It feels like Blizz is trying really hard to bring me back. The DPS 2pc bonus for Dk's spawns Troll Ghosts to fight for you..... I.... Dear god. This is killing me.

I think playing to catch up will drive you back out within 7 days


Pretty Much. From what I can tell, it feels like the barrier for re-entry to the game is just maddeningly high, and if I were to ever come back, it would be completely sans LFR. I just couldn't imagine doing that ever again.

I'll stick to playing games on my iphone, but man... I'm really interested to see the new Tier set for DK's, amd see this proc in action. A Troll DK, with Troll Ghosts... The only way it would be cooler is if they would introduce glyphs that made your Ghoul/Army of the Dead look like Dead Models of your own race. I'm pretty sure they have undead models of every "non forsaken" race in the game by now don't they?
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:53 pm

dam you shoju....
i made my dk as an undead for a reason

now you are making me want to switch him to troll
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Shoju » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:22 pm

bldavis wrote:dam you shoju....
i made my dk as an undead for a reason

now you are making me want to switch him to troll


aye mon. de trolls have de juju mon.

And, we were (as of the time that I stopped playing) the least represented Race/Class Combination of anything that had been out since WOTLK (not including the new race class combos for Cata).

Dwarf Rogues? Yeah. There were more Dwarf Rogues than Troll Dk's.

And we look awesome.
And we have huge tusks.
And we have a great mechanical sounding DK laugh
And our weapons are big but not stupidly big.
And our Shoulders are big enough to show off the armor without being Orc sized
And we have great jokes
And we have de voodoo mon
And you can make great macros to go with abilities (did you ever see my macros for Army of the Dead, and Raise Ghoul that included /y's in them?)
And we don't wear shoes. Meaning a lot of boot models don't look stupid.
Did I mention the size of our tusks? I mean... Go look me up on the armory. Onisu, Shojus, Shojin. Dude. Those tusks are H.U.G.E.

And being a troll is better than being a Forsaken (and all the other races) because
  • Sylvanas is crazy
  • Vol'Jin is awesome
  • Our women smell better
  • We. Ride. DINOSAURS. From Level 20. FREAKING RAPTORS MAN. What is going to impress the ladies? Showing up on a pile of bones? Or showing up on a FREAKING RAPTOR?
  • We have the best looking "themed" Armor. Seriously. Go look at the Voodo Leather, or the wood plate stuff, and the troll shields, and the weapons from ZG/ZA. We have AWESOME looking stuff.
  • We have never tried to exterminate life on azeroth with chemical warfare.
  • We never had a pet Demon who tried to overthrow our leader
  • Our Leader has wanted to Kill Garrosh since forever
  • We talk like we're Jamaican
  • when we get new gear, it looks "new". Not like what you crawled out fo the ground in.
  • We have a tropical island home
  • We have female druids if you are into the freaky deaky stuff. (too far?)
  • We have never been in the service of Arthas, or Sargeras.
  • We have a racial called "Da Voodoo Shuffle!" It's almost as cool as the Truffle Shuffle!
  • We just naturally regenerate. We don't have to eat a corpse, (but a lightly salted forest troll still tastes good every now and then)
  • The Tusks. Yes. 3rd time. They are that cool. Not Horns like a Bovine. Tusks.
  • We have Rhythm. (Watch us get ready for battle. We bob to the music in our head)
  • What CAN'T WE BE? Paladins. Blah blah blah blah blah. They only know that if they gave Trolls Paladins, we would overthrow all of Azeroth with our awesomeness.
  • We have never. EVER. Been a part of the Alliance
  • We come in many colors. Those colors aren't associated to the amount of decay we experienced.
  • Our Spine doesn't come through our cloak
  • Tusks.
  • Who teaches you how to ride a Venomhide Raptor? Oh Right. A Troll.
  • What people are strong enough that they kill their gods to achieve their power? Oh Right. Trolls.
  • The Dance. Seriously. Spinning Kicks. Flips. All kinds of acrobaticness. How does that Metal Headbanging even remotely compare? I'll give you that your ladies dance.... more seductively than ours, but really. A Seductive undead? That's sick.
  • We are so amazingly awesome, that the evil Trolls have had ZF, ZA (2 times!), ZG (2 times!), ZD, ST as raid/dungeons purely about our race, AND it looks like the bad trolls are coming back again. Who is more evil? Trolls or Forsaken? Obviously Trolls.
  • Can you name a Dragon that takes the form of a troll? I can't. You know why? They cant transform into a race that is cooler than Dragons.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Holyblaze » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:57 pm

lol ok Shoju, while I LOVE kilking your kin in PvP all day long. This post is a TOTAL BAM! haha WoOt!

I hate the horde (small "h") with all my being, but I may have, but for a fleeting moment, wanted to be a Troll! DAMN YOU GOOD SIR!
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:16 pm

i mostly made an undead dk cause it fit my name too weell
Mortimis

if i remade him though, def be a troll
there are reasons my druid and shaman are trolls, as would a few more of my toons if i didnt have this need to have every race and already started a bunch of Belves with other friends (funny how most alliance want to be a belf when they make a horde toon >.>)

undead lock - first toon on terenas and tribute to an old friend
belf mage - started with a friend
belf pally - started with a friend
tauren pally - wanted a pally that wasnt a girly man...and i always liked the thought of a tauren tank
goblin hunter - giggles, and tribute to a friend
belf rogue - started with friend, and is tribute to someone else
orc warrior - needed an orc...and a warrior (dont ask)
panda monk - didnt have pandas, or monks, when i made the rest

and finally troll druid and shaman - do i have to explain, they are TROLLS!
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Darielle » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:37 pm

As Prot or as Ret? Admittedly, if there are 8 or 9 vermin, doing it as prot is probably around as fast as ret, due to how vengeance works. I still have no problem pulling them all at once and AoEing them down as ret. But if there's like only 1 or 2, you get zero vengeance as prot, and killing those few mobs takes like forever.

Ret is insanely much faster than Prot against 1 or 2 targets, and against a big group I can still survive well. Even if I'm taking a lot of damage and have to switch to SoI, I'm usually still doing more damage as Ret than as Prot, so I don't really see an intensive to go Prot for anything under 5 man HCs, where vengeance becomes enough to make Prot worthwhile.


Prot. 3-4 birds/Virmen (combined) is around the norm on a 16-plot.

Even with 1-2 mobs, they're dead in around 10-15 seconds, before AW ends. That's hardly "forever". A lot of the difference is vastly exaggerated.

The 4 piece is actually quite strong, but it's going to vary significantly based on content type. It'll be much weaker in 10N and 25N than in 10H and 25H. In 25H it's probably enough extra HP to "sotr-cap" for the duration of DP.


It'll be hilarious for fights with short-cooldown burst mechanics, but at the same time, it's kinda silly how it interacts. It'll be an instant HP jump on something like Ta'yak if you time it for OA, and on %HP mechanics like Calamity. It also has that weird aspect where if you actually did blanket ShoR during the duration of DP, you're hitting your HP gain, so near the end if possible it may behoove not using ShoR, and shooting to hit 5 right as DP ends.
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:10 pm

Darielle wrote:Even with 1-2 mobs, they're dead in around 10-15 seconds, before AW ends. That's hardly "forever". A lot of the difference is vastly exaggerated.

Sunsong ranch is also a place where you have "relative" low hp mobs that spawn close to each other with no reset problem (nor respawn,damage taken,other people,etc etc)

Not exactly the benchmark to say farming as prot is superultragreat
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Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Flex » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:08 am

Fenris wrote:Not exactly the benchmark to say farming as prot is superultragreat


Pretty sure a farm is a perfect place to make that claim...
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