Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:34 pm

Can't be helped? These are kids that are literally in the freaking building, but won't go to where they are supposed to...

I'm sorry, but if a school can't solve that problem that's absurd.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:46 pm

The kid might be in the building, but if the kid is not present in the classroom by the time the teacher is taking attendance, then for all intents and purposes, that kid is just not present as per the TEA regulation.

Can't be helped because those are the regulations imposed by TEA to all the districts when it comes to attendance.

Every kid has to be accounted for, ever day, and the state gives a certain amount of money based on that day's attendance. The state gives the most money that are present since the first class, and obviously less money for the kids that were there but werent there for the whole day...

That's why they want RFID on the students, to force them to go into the classrooms on time, so they can be accounted on time, so TEA can give them the most money for the kids.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:01 pm

Klaud I understand the accounting...

Again, if the students are in the school, but you can't get them to go to their class on time, you are failing miserably at solving a very fundamental problem that requires nothing close to RFID tagging kids.

How on earth would RFID even help with that? I mean the kids are in the hallways and stairwells, it's not like they don't know where they are. I'm guessing they'll just use RFID as a way to say that the kids are present.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:05 pm

how are RFID tags going to do anything different than currently?
you still need personnel to herd the kids into the room

all a tag will do is show you where they are, which will just cut down time looking for them, and add a new level for skippers to have fun getting around

its not like the tags will mind control the kids and when passing is over make them walk into the rooms
and if it is not in a school with passing time between classes...why are they allowed out in the hall without supervision anyway?

note: before this was written before frid had posted thier comment
if they use the tags as Frid suggested, just use them on doors and forget about taking attendence, and shut the doors at the end of passing times. you arent in class, you dont get the lecture or turn in homework, so you dont get credit for them, and you are SoL and have to figure out how to get to class on time, or retake it

i mean it worked like that for me in school, and yes i had to retake some classes
but i guess that kind of real world harshness would be too tough for kids these days right? :roll:
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:05 pm

how are RFID tags going to do anything different than currently?
you still need personnel to herd the kids into the room

all a tag will do is show you where they are, which will just cut down time looking for them, and add a new level for skippers to have fun getting around

its not like the tags will mind control the kids and when passing is over make them walk into the rooms
and if it is not in a school with passing time between classes...why are they allowed out in the hall without supervision anyway?

note: above this was written before frid had posted thier comment
if they use the tags as Frid suggested, just use them on doors and forget about taking attendence, and shut the doors at the end of passing times. you arent in class, you dont get the lecture or turn in homework, so you dont get credit for them, and you are SoL and have to figure out how to get to class on time, or retake it

i mean it worked like that for me in school, and yes i had to retake some classes
but i guess that kind of real world harshness would be too tough for kids these days right? :roll:
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:43 pm

My university took attendance that way. It caused a HUGE stir among the student body, split about evenly between "hey, you tell us we're adults, but you want to punish us for not attending above and beyond an F that we'd normally get for skipping a bunch of classes" and "OMG POLICE STATE WTF".

Pretty much what you'd expect from a university-level student body.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:55 pm

ive had classes where you missed more than 3 classes, and that includes being more than 5 min late, you dropped a grade and i have had classes where he didnt give a rats ass if you showed, but if you didnt you had to figure out how to do the project on your own or get a class mate to help (one of my ...ok most of my drafting classes were like that)
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:46 pm

Fivelives wrote:My university took attendance that way. It caused a HUGE stir among the student body, split about evenly between "hey, you tell us we're adults, but you want to punish us for not attending above and beyond an F that we'd normally get for skipping a bunch of classes" and "OMG POLICE STATE WTF".

Pretty much what you'd expect from a university-level student body.
lol, how exactly would they punish you? Did they really have an attendance problem like that? I mean you're the one that is paying for the school, that should be motivation enough for you to show up. In any event, at least at the university level you have a choice.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Dantriges » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:06 am

Fridmarr wrote:I'm not doubting their reasoning. I know how the funding works, part of our backwards system of having a federal department of education, a gigantic waste of resources that unsurprisingly has created bad results and ridiculous inefficiencies. I'm just amazed that a school can't figure out how to take proper attendance without resorting to RFID tagging their students. As a government school, the logic doesn't pass a basic sniff test for something so invasive.


And well school rducation is more or less in the hands of the provinces over here and it´s a gigantic waste of resources, too and they can´t agree on anything if they are all affected. That´s just bureauracy, no matter if it´s on a state or nation wide level. We are long past the time where village level administration is sufficient which is probably more efficient... in rural towns. There are enough countries in the world as big as your average US state that are perfectly capable of wasting big bucks in big bureaucracy. So if you transfer power over to the states, your tax dollars will go to waste within the then expanded state administration. Perhaps you can save quite a few bucks if you disband the Union completely and let every state work for himself but somehow I don´t think that there are so many people in favor of that.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Torquemada » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:05 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Brekkie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:17 am

Dantriges wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:I'm not doubting their reasoning. I know how the funding works, part of our backwards system of having a federal department of education, a gigantic waste of resources that unsurprisingly has created bad results and ridiculous inefficiencies. I'm just amazed that a school can't figure out how to take proper attendance without resorting to RFID tagging their students. As a government school, the logic doesn't pass a basic sniff test for something so invasive.


And well school rducation is more or less in the hands of the provinces over here and it´s a gigantic waste of resources, too and they can´t agree on anything if they are all affected. That´s just bureauracy, no matter if it´s on a state or nation wide level. We are long past the time where village level administration is sufficient which is probably more efficient... in rural towns. There are enough countries in the world as big as your average US state that are perfectly capable of wasting big bucks in big bureaucracy. So if you transfer power over to the states, your tax dollars will go to waste within the then expanded state administration. Perhaps you can save quite a few bucks if you disband the Union completely and let every state work for himself but somehow I don´t think that there are so many people in favor of that.


And this is exactly why I have trouble understanding the "states rights" argument.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:37 am

I guess I don't see the big deal with RFID based attendance. They are students. In a school. Is it the expense that people have a problem with? Is it the RFID? There are companies that have similar monitoring systems. Good for them. You're there to go to school. You're there to do a job. The RFID proves if you were there or not, and can keep people there, and accounted for. But then, I guess I'm not that upset by it.




Why? Because he took Al-Jazeera's money? Because they are funded by a country whose funding is based on Oil? I guess I don't understand. Just because you are an environmentalist, you can't even deal with people who do other things? Just because Quatar has a big carbon footprint, he shouldn't make a business decision to sell something to them?

I don't care much for Al "I invented the internet" Gore, but I hardly see him selling his stake in a TV Company as hypocritical.

Maybe if he owned a for profit "greenpeace" type company and sold out to Oil Barons, that'd be hypocritical. But a business deal for a TV station? Just doesn't get me all up in arms.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:16 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/1 ... 49431.html

Holy Shit Bricks Batman. Texas just lost all of their Medicaid Funding for women, because of their new "Anti Planned Parenthood" Discrimination Laws.

I uh... Well, I see some lawsuits coming in the great state of texas, and I think I see a shift in population coming if goes too far.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:16 am

That article was posted last march
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:21 am

Klaudandus wrote:That article was posted last march


Hmm... I think I clicked the wrong thing. Let me see if I can find the article they were linking to today. There was supposedly some new development.

EDIT: Yeah, I fail at keeping up with my Twitter feed. I found a couple of links,

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-plan ... d=18173045

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/17041/

But there was another link about Texas and funding, and Planned Parenthood today. I can't seem to find the link, but there was some sort of new development. Go me.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:02 am

Shoju wrote:Hmm... I think I clicked the wrong thing. Let me see if I can find the article they were linking to today. There was supposedly some new development.

EDIT: Yeah, I fail at keeping up with my Twitter feed. I found a couple of links,

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-plan ... d=18173045

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/17041/

But there was another link about Texas and funding, and Planned Parenthood today. I can't seem to find the link, but there was some sort of new development. Go me.


Hey, more rich old white guys deciding what's best for women's health.

Just for added bonus
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/h ... tml?hp=r15
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/0 ... .html?rape

There's not enough desk for me to face

Addendum: Again, my beef is that it's guys deciding, let women decide the policies that affect their own bodies.

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The irony is completely lost on this guy
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:20 am

Dantriges wrote:And well school rducation is more or less in the hands of the provinces over here and it´s a gigantic waste of resources, too and they can´t agree on anything if they are all affected. That´s just bureauracy, no matter if it´s on a state or nation wide level. We are long past the time where village level administration is sufficient which is probably more efficient... in rural towns. There are enough countries in the world as big as your average US state that are perfectly capable of wasting big bucks in big bureaucracy. So if you transfer power over to the states, your tax dollars will go to waste within the then expanded state administration. Perhaps you can save quite a few bucks if you disband the Union completely and let every state work for himself but somehow I don´t think that there are so many people in favor of that.


Here's it's not a choice between state level bureaucracy vs federal level.  We actually have both, we get the worst of both worlds.  Education is actually mostly a state thing, it used to be more local but it's been moving more and more towards the state and even federal a bit.  The federal government just coerces states to do various things by taking their money and holding it until the states comply. 

Many of our programs are run in that way, the degree varies, but a lot of these programs would run just fine (aside from funding) if the federal gov't stopped existing tomorrow.  The fed comes up with the rules, a chunk of the money (sometimes all of it), but the states do most the implementation.  The fed just becomes a sort of draconian compliance and reporting authority.

Brekkie wrote:And this is exactly why I have trouble understanding the "states rights" argument.


My line of work has enabled me to get a pretty decent working knowledge of many levels of business in both the private and public sector.  Needless to say I could probably write quite a bit on that topic, but I have neither the time nor the inclination at the moment, and I suspect no one is interested in hearing it anyhow.  That said, if you've ever uttered the phrase "large corporation" you get the idea, only in the public sector the risks and balances are even more skewed.  Now, I'm not naive enough to consider states to be the equivalent of "small business", but our current system is just one more layer of abstration which emphasizes those negative qualities that much more.
 
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:04 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Fivelives wrote:My university took attendance that way. It caused a HUGE stir among the student body, split about evenly between "hey, you tell us we're adults, but you want to punish us for not attending above and beyond an F that we'd normally get for skipping a bunch of classes" and "OMG POLICE STATE WTF".

Pretty much what you'd expect from a university-level student body.
lol, how exactly would they punish you? Did they really have an attendance problem like that? I mean you're the one that is paying for the school, that should be motivation enough for you to show up. In any event, at least at the university level you have a choice.


Anywhere from an automatic failing grade for the semester and academic probation all the way to financial aid suspension and loss of university grants. It depends on the individual department how far they want to take the punishment, but the university is pressuring them to make it more and more stringent.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:29 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:22 pm

And how stupid some right-wingers are...
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/10/e ... um=twitter


Somehow... my quote about the evils of algebra becomes funny in hindsight...
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=32920&p=733531&hilit=algebra#p733531
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:32 pm

From that article:
Bolling advised parents to read their children’s history books because his son’s textbook addressed the Iraq war “and they were very, very liberally biased, saying George Bush went in there because he heard there were weapons of mass destruction and they were never found. It was a very liberal bias to the history books.”

What? Isn't that the Bush administration's official story anyway?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Aubade » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:09 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:From that article:
Bolling advised parents to read their children’s history books because his son’s textbook addressed the Iraq war “and they were very, very liberally biased, saying George Bush went in there because he heard there were weapons of mass destruction and they were never found. It was a very liberal bias to the history books.”

What? Isn't that the Bush administration's official story anyway?


yeah. Makes you sad doesn't it.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:12 pm

Well, truth has a liberal bias... and apparently, so does math =P
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Dantriges » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:29 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Here's it's not a choice between state level bureaucracy vs federal level.  We actually have both, we get the worst of both worlds.  Education is actually mostly a state thing, it used to be more local but it's been moving more and more towards the state and even federal a bit.   


AFAIK the "fed" here is involved in education but more on the higher education level, etc, and throwing in some money or so. And well the EU is involved wth their asinine Bologna plan.
So three levels, each one as incompetent as the other one.

I think it´s shifting more to the fed in the US because you need some standards. If Smallville´s schools are giving out straight As for something that would be a B in Big City, there is a problem, at least with things like admission to college or university. And well it´s unfair.

And well your small school in Dirttown can´t compete with New York. Its not like in the time of my mom where schools were more like the one in "Our little Farm" than the one we´re used to today. The requirements on education today are probably not even the same than 20 years. Schools today need more specialised equipment if we want to keep a higher education standard, something that´s important to every politician and forgotten as soon as no one looks.

And well the local mayor is perfectly capable of screwing up like everyone else. AFAIK there would be some benefit as humans have problems with bigger social structures but we are certainly pas this threshold for a long time now.

The federal government just coerces states to do various things by taking their money and holding it until the states comply.

Many of our programs are run in that way, the degree varies, but a lot of these programs would run just fine (aside from funding) if the federal gov't stopped existing tomorrow. The fed comes up with the rules, a chunk of the money (sometimes all of it), but the states do most the implementation. The fed just becomes a sort of draconian compliance and reporting authority.


Uh well, is the Fed raiding the states treasuries regularly? Yeah the Fed gets money from the states because they govern the same area. So unless you want to implement a dual, federal and state tax collection system, which is a waste of time and money, it seems to be a prudent decision to let the smaller guy collect and transfer. Ok probably some states have to pay a bigger share but well a state with deserts and mostly rural areas, simply can´t pay the same amount as California.

And I don´t understand the "Programs would just run fine without the feds, aside from funding" bit. No money = nothing runs. And I don´t think voters would be happy if they want an explanation what these programs do and the answer is "Uh no idea, we don´t want to tell them what to do with it, heard the one principal bought a yacht or so." And the fed has to impose some rules. If two guys are working on the same project and one of them is funding it, he probably wants a say in the matter what happens with his bucks (well the tapayers bucks but you know what I mean).
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Brekkie » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:21 am

Aubade wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:From that article:
Bolling advised parents to read their children’s history books because his son’s textbook addressed the Iraq war “and they were very, very liberally biased, saying George Bush went in there because he heard there were weapons of mass destruction and they were never found. It was a very liberal bias to the history books.”

What? Isn't that the Bush administration's official story anyway?


yeah. Makes you sad doesn't it.


By the way we did find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Specifically chemical weapons. I know disabled veterans with chemical burns from artillery shells used against them in Iraq in the initial push.
This is unsurprising, since America sold Saddam these chemical weapons in the first place.

What we didn't find is nuclear weapons, or a nuclear weapons program.

But saying we found "no weapons of mass destruction" is stretching the truth a little.
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