patch 5.2 ?

[bldavis]

if he had the mobs to begin with, no i dont rip threat off him
if we both reach the mobs, yes i pull more aoe threat
but i am also shite geared (see sig, mortimis)

[Fenris]

I raid with a monk.At this point i just afk during trash pulls,i'd end doing nothing anyway

And then every single lfg i can do pretty much the same,unless i meet another paladin or someone that is playing really,really badly.

[Klaudandus]

GC Pally tweets of the day:
Rets and why DS/HotR hit like wet noddles
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status ... 2364016641

Holy Paladins are still somewhat OP
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status ... 9268683776

*facedesk*

Bonus:
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status ... 2815436801

[Levantine]

Well that holy paladin one might be true. It's a PvP tweet and how many of us here actually know how high level pvp works?

[Klaudandus]

Well that holy paladin one might be true. It's a PvP tweet and how many of us here actually know how high level pvp works?

I was facedesking at the lack of prot tweets

[Levantine]

Ohh, well that makes more sense. I thought it was more about the... dumbness of the tweets. Although I suppose a lot of that is due to the medium itself.

[Fenris]

From mmo-c

Item - Paladin T15 Protection 2P Bonus (New) Casting Word of Glory or Eternal Flame also grants you 40% additional block chance for 5 sec per Holy Power.
Item - Paladin T15 Protection 4P Bonus (New) You gain 1 Holy Power for each 0% of your health taken as damage while Divine Protection is active.

2p seems really strong (but then i start thinking about all the "should i put up bastion of glory or 2p-bonus" to do on the fly )
4p...Uhm....

And then on to the class changes..

Talents

Repentance now has a 1.7 sec cast time, up from 1.5 sec.


Set Bonuses

Item - Paladin PvP Set Holy 4P Bonus - Casting Flash of Light grants 1 charge of Holy Power. No longer works off of Word of Glory.

...ok,nevermind,nothing to see there

[Newsom]

So... if we can get to 62.4% avoidance and also reliably generate 3 holy power per 15 seconds we could become block capped again?

I'm already at ~50% and I'm stacking haste. Seems totally doable. I hope I miscalculated or something (or that this doesn't go live) because it sounds like some pretty boring gameplay keeping a 15 sec buff up. :/

[Worldie]

I doubt they'd let us become block capped with tier set. It would mean we'd want to stay in T15 even when the following tier is released

[Sagara]

Uh, aren't we working on a two-roll system? You'd need ~60% block to get capped, regardless of avoidance, then.

I'm just not up to date on this kind of thing, I'd rather shamelessly steal from our resident PhD :-p

[Newsom]

Oh, then it makes more sense.

[Sagara]

Oh, then it makes more sense.

Don't take my word for it - it's mostly hazy memories from Beta, coupled with our current dodge/parry/block interactions.

[Fetzie]

Isn't it 109% block+avoidance required nowadays, now that player miss is irrelevant for PvE and avoidance suppression is something like 1.5% per level difference?

[Newsom]

Someone get Theck in here to sort it out!

[Sagara]

We just need to look up our documentation. Last mention I had was in MArch, when the two-roll thingie got announed, and in August when Theck was working through the stats weights in the late Beta.

So, I'm more inclined to think we're still under the two-rolls system. So in order to block-cap, we need to hit 100% block, regardless of avoidance. Not going to happen.

[Fetzie]

You have a first roll against you:

The first roll decides if the attack will miss, be dodged or parried.

If the attack is not avoided, there is a second roll:

The second roll decides whether the attack will be blocked or not. To guarantee a non-hit, you need 100% block.

Warriors get a tertiary roll to decide if a block will be critical or not.

Lets say you have 5% dodge, 20% parry, 40% block. Fairly typical avoidance and block values when raid buffed.

25% of attacks from a boss are avoided, 75% are eligible to be blocked.

40% of that 75% of attacks are blocked (= 30%). So we have a total of 25+30=55% block+avoid.

Increasing that block chance to 80% results in 60% of all attacks being blocked (0.75*0.8=0.6). So we have 25+60=85% block+avoid.

[theckhd]

Block is on a second roll, so avoidance is irrelevant. You need 104.5% block to be block-capped. Remember that a raid boss negates 4.5% dodge, parry, miss, and block. Also remember that block is on diminishing returns. You need about 207.03% block from mastery before diminishing returns to reach block cap (adding in base and spec bonuses after).

Also note that it reads 40% per Holy Power. So the bonus is probably 120% pre-DR.

You can play around with it on my Tankadin spreadsheet. You can arbitrarily add block chance in cell D16. That's equivalent to arbitrarily adding mastery. Putting in 191.19 (plus the 15.84% from mastery I have already) gets you to block cap (104.5% on char sheet) post-DR.

[Sagara]

So that means a good 90% block from outside sources? Is that even conceivable - I don't see us much higher than 20%...

[theckhd]

Unless the set bonus is not affected by DR. But that seems awfully unlikely. 120% block without DR automatically block caps us. If you let it be affected by DR, 120% block (put it into cell D16) is about 60% block post-DR, which is still a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if it's supposed to be 40% per 3 holy power (about 30% block post-DR).

[Fetzie]

Unless the "per holy power" was referring to the buff duration, not the block chance (40% block for 5/10/15 seconds instead of 40/80/120% block for 5 seconds).

The former would mean every third ShoR being replaced by a WoG to maintain the buff (would have 3-4 seconds down-time depending on haste level.

[Sagara]

Re-reading the set bonus, I'm betting donuts it'll be the time that's flexible.

[KysenMurrin]

I certainly read it as extending the duration.

[benebarba]

Unless the "per holy power" was referring to the buff duration, not the block chance (40% block for 5/10/15 seconds instead of 40/80/120% block for 5 seconds).

The former would mean every third ShoR being replaced by a WoG to maintain the buff (would have 3-4 seconds down-time depending on haste level.

and it would be a way to give people a way to 'proactively' use WoG. Could be interesting.

[Worldie]

If you think about it, it wouldnt make any sense to get a buff for "120% block". It would be unintuitive.

[benebarba]

If you think about it, it wouldnt make any sense to get a buff for "120% block". It would be unintuitive.

Well, one could argue that the 2-roll system isn't intuitive - but they did that anyway. So I'm not sure that's necessarily a good argument.