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[Klaudandus]

The HoF is a museum of Baseball. You can't fucking ignore a segment of its history just because "oh he took steroids".

What a joke.

Only if we label those players as jokes in the process, then I don't mind having a plaque with their likeness in cooperstown.

The joke section, starting with Mcgwire, Bonds, Clemens and A-Rod.

That said... fuck the writers... it's more of a travesty that Jack Morris is not in the HoF than any of the roiders you apparently want in.

[Teranoid]

That and how did Biggio fall less than 40 votes short?

And I don't care if they got in. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that they're basically refusing to acknowledge the fact that this is part of the history of the sport positive or negative.

[Klaudandus]

yeah, fuck baseball writers.

[Teranoid]

Oh and 1 writer voted for Aaron Sele.

Like I said before. What a joke.

[Klaudandus]

Oh and 1 writer voted for Aaron Sele.

Like I said before. What a joke.

God, it's been ages since I heard that name.

[Fridmarr]

The HoF voting is a sham. The voters tend to act like the steroid era started with the McGwire and Sosa homerun chase, but it had been going strong for at least 20 years before that. EPSN had some idiot on last night, who actually has a vote, talking about how methamphetamines aren't a PED because they don't add bulk or improve your eyesight, so he was fine for voting for folks that took them...but not PEDs. It probably doesn't help that the voters comprise the most inept media category in America.

I don't think Clemens or Bonds are close, last year they were in the 40% area if I remember right, so they won't be getting in until there is a shift in thinking about PED use. It's likely that no one will get in this year. Do you know where Morris was vote wise?

Who the heck was saying that? I hope it's not one of the two Baseball Writers I actually like....

Not sure who he was, he was on with Tim Kurkjian (one of the few I like) and Buster Olney. Kurkjian had the balls to say, that he did the best he could with his ballot, but his ballot was still horrible, and everyone's ballot was horrible because the process is bullshit.

Of course this dude responded that his ballot was "right".

The HoF is a museum of Baseball. You can't fucking ignore a segment of its history just because "oh he took steroids".

What a joke.

Well the same dude had a response to pretty much that exact question. Though I think his other point (re: PEDs) is pretty stupid, his point on this is pretty solid.

The HOF list is a portion of the museum, there are plenty things in the museum not related to the HOF, even of banned players like Rose. To that end, the accomplishments of these players are there along with their stories and paraphernalia . They aren't ignored by the museum, they just didn't garner HOF recognition, but that puts them on the same list as nearly every other player. To suggest that their accomplishments are being ignored would mean that the HOF has always ignored almost everybody's accomplishments, since very few players will make it.

[Klaudandus]

One of the things that bother me is that if these baseball writers had actually done their job as journalists, they wouldnt be writing a bunch of articles bitching about having to vote for steroid users.

Although they dont piss me off as much as those writers that actually write articles defending the steroid users...

[bldavis]

but to be competative you HAVE to use steroids!


i view it the same way i view the Armstrong doping thing
if they were found AT THE TIME to have been using substances banned AT THE TIME, why were they allowed to compete?
if they werent found to be using them, what is the big deal?
most sports are riddled with drug use...

ffs, if you are going to strip people of titles and limit their HoF chances based on history and shit you dig up years later, why even bother have a HoF or to give out said titles
the point is you okay-ed them to compete, they did what they felt was needed to compete at the level they did
you didnt want those substances used, you should have banned them earlier and had better testing then i guess
ban them now and stop thier use in the future - ok everyone changes to something that is still legal
its just a big arms race

yes i would prefer it if no doping ever happened...but that wont happen.
so why take away achievements or keep someone out of the hall of fame just due to what had happened? i say keep them in it, but just note that they were LATER found to have used substances that were LATER banned or that were undetected at the time

[Teranoid]

They're so afraid of putting someone in and then years later it comes out they did roids and then OH NO MY JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY HAS BEEN BESMIRCHED!

[bldavis]

so what if they used roids
if they had been caught at the time, they would have been punished
if they werent caught, great they beat the system..just add a notation to their listing

[halabar]

so what if they used roids
if they had been caught at the time, they would have been punished
if they werent caught, great they beat the system..just add a notation to their listing

Because they make a farce of the records. However, we'll never really know all of who was enhanced, who just took andro, and who was juiced to the gills. Especially pitchers. It's a mess with no right answer.

Steroid issue aside, the voting process is a total clusterfuck, and the writers are the biggest cesspool od self righteous prima donnas this side of dog show judges. When you have writers turning in blank ballots, voting for friends or hometown favorites (Sele), or not using all the available slots, plus the judgmental (he's not a first rounder) it's clear that the writers are far too swayed with their own self importance.

Given the new candidates coming next year, it's quite likely no one gets voted in again.

[bldavis]

the records are a clusterfuck as is
that is why i say screw it, let them all in and just note that this guy used roids and leave it at that

again i point at the lance armstrong issue
if he had been caught at the time during the race or shortly after, hell yes strip him
but dont do it 5+ years LATER

rules change, banned substances change, and if you are going to strip someone of a title without proof he used PEDs or blood boosters, why even give them out?

[Fridmarr]

Given the new candidates coming next year, it's quite likely no one gets voted in again.

I can't imagine Greg Maddux not making it in. I think he's eligible next year.

[halabar]

Given the new candidates coming next year, it's quite likely no one gets voted in again.

I can't imagine Greg Maddux not making it in. I think he's eligible next year.

I'll bet you he doesn't get in first round, the baseball writers being the petulant group they are...

But there are enough deserving candidates that I doubt any get in.

[Fridmarr]

I think statistically he's like a top 10 pitcher of all time. The writers are...well everything we all already said, but I have to admit I'd be surprised if he didn't make it. I guess I shouldn't underestimate their stupidity though.