Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby boneyjellyfish » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:31 am

Alright, next question. Does Execution Sentence scale with haste? If so, what are the breakpoints?

*edit*

Just checked ElitistJerks and someone mentioned that none of the level 90 talents scale with haste at all:
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t130889-ret ... ost2204109

That's annoying.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:54 am

Klaudandus wrote:on cast, iirc

Yes, it's on-cast. The damage is the only part that can miss.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Diceone » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:22 am

Our spell based HP generators generate HP on cast, so hitting or missing doesn't matter for them.


If our generators and finishers both give us the benefit on cast what's the benifit to all the hit and expertise we're throwing on our gear? I mean aside from increased crusader procs I'm not sure I see the benefit outside of dps. I could see an increase in SoI/battle healer but that would have to be relatively minor and half of that doesn't even heal ourselves.

Also I thought the only reason for expertise value to drop in dps after 7.5% was that it stopped giving us effective hit stats to judgement, but otherwise was unchanged by going over the 7.5% mark.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:03 am

CS and J are melee attacks, and do not grant holy power if they miss or are dodged/parried.
Grand Crusader grants holy power as soon as you cast AS, thus it does not depend on hit/miss mechanics.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Schroom » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:08 am

so it should be:
Our spell based HP generator
without the s in gernerator(s) as there is only that one. I guess this brought up the confusion :)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Diceone » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:12 pm

Thanks for the clarification, missed the spell part.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby econ21 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:41 am

Have you or anyone else done the maths on what damage focused weapon enchants would do for our dps? It's just I was reading a thread on the gear section where someone said they preferred one over colossus and I wondered how much extra dps you would get from such a thing. (Apologies if I missed where this is discussed.)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:47 am

Not yet. tlitp was working on the enchant module last I checked, but I'm not sure how far along it is. Now that everything is on the RPPM system, we can probably use fairly simple approximations rather than doing everything rigorously. It's just a matter of finding the time.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Thels » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:25 am

econ21 wrote:It's just I was reading a thread on the gear section where someone said they preferred one over colossus and I wondered how much extra dps you would get from such a thing.
That could've been me, and yeah, that was mostly a hunch and somewhat based on:

Someone on the Elitist Jerks forums wrote:Windsong can proc all 3 stats (Crit, Haste, and Mastery) simultaneously. This provides 4500 secondary stats vs Dancing Steel's 1650 Str, with potentially roughly the same up-time. The sheer quantity of additional stats makes Windsong superior if this pans out. If Windsong is changed to permit only 1 proc at a time, Dancing Steel will shoot ahead in comparison.

Windsong appears to be underperforming - proc rate appears to be 1 PPM for all 3 combined, rather than each separately. This varies from how it performed in Beta. Roughly 13% up-time for any given buff, thus 13%^3 (0.2%) chance to have all simultaneously. Dancing Steel should definitely pull ahead. Windsong does still appear to be superior to Elemental Force.

Balhale's modeling shows Windsong 0.7% to 1.4% total DPS behind Dancing Steel this tier.

We still need to test Windsong and Dancing Steel intensively in the game to determine more details of their proc mechanics. Previous enchants have been made/broken based on Ret-specific details such as Censure applications and Seal procs.

Recommend the mat-cheaper Windsong on pre-Raid gear. For Raid weaponry you may upgrade to Dancing Steel.


Now I know that something working out well for Retri might not work out well for Prot. It could be a wrong guess and Windsong being much better for DPS. It's quite safe to say that both of them beat Colossus for DPS output, though.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fetzie » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:24 pm

Do you know if anybody has mathed out the difference in damage reduction between the protection 4P bonus versus the increased ShoR uptime from the haste on non-set pieces? I read that the 4P is only 10% of the current reduction amount (so if you have 50% damage reduction it only adds 5% to ShoR.)

My intuition is that it is pretty much 0 difference (~4% more reduction when ShoR is up versus ~4% more uptime of ShoR for me, so I'd take the increased smoothness from the haste over the increased reduction from the ShoR increase), but I would be interested in seeing it "mathed out" if you were looking for a topic for your blog and had any free time, unless it is already covered in the haste vs mastery maths.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Schroom » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:23 am

from Elitist jerks:

At 90, does 103+18%SP holy damage per tick (927+162%SP for full duration)


from the ptr notes:

The base damage of Consecration has been increased by 789%, and it now scales less efficiently with attack power by approximately 11%.


does this mean that evey tick now does: 813 + 11% SP (7317 + 99%SP for full duration) ?

has anyone been able to check this on the ptr yet?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Nooska » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:25 am

More like 813 + 16% SP (7314 + 144% SP for full duration) (rounded seperately to make room for whichever is calculated before being divided/multiplied)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:27 am

This is what I got from my tests on the PTR.

Code: Select all
        AP      Cons Tick
Naked   602     962
T1      2806    1139
T2      5532    1356
T3      8714    1611
T4      11584   1841
T5      15498   2154
T6      18050   2358
T7*     21390   2625
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Schroom » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:39 am

Klaudandus wrote:This is what I got from my tests on the PTR.

Code: Select all
        AP      Cons Tick
Naked   602     962
T1      2806    1139
T2      5532    1356
T3      8714    1611
T4      11584   1841
T5      15498   2154
T6      18050   2358
T7*     21390   2625



mh ok. so 962-813= 149 (SP part)

SP = AP/2 = 602/2= 301
1% SP = 3.01

149/3.01= 49.50



???



help math plx xD
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Ergil » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:18 am

Putting the data (not all of it, because lazy...) from Klaudanus into GeoGebra I get roughly 913 + 8%AP, which is 913 + 16%SP, which makes sense, as 103*8,89 is 915 (alsomst the 913 I got) and 18%*0.89=16%.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:49 am

Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = b+a*x
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =        0.08  (0.07995, 0.08004)
       b =         914  (913.4, 914.6)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.7666
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.3574


So it's 914+0.08*AP per tick. Should be 9 ticks.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:39 pm

Are we gonna get affected with the new vengeance cap they hotfixed after the lvl 80 pally shenanigans? It's apparently capping at max health
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:04 pm

The better question is "will we even notice?" How often do you have over 700k Vengeance AP?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby benebarba » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:05 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Are we gonna get affected with the new vengeance cap they hotfixed after the lvl 80 pally shenanigans? It's apparently capping at max health


Yes. Because for one brief, shining moment we were the OP tanks ;)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:08 pm

benebarba wrote:Yes. Because for one brief, shining moment we were the OP tanks ;)

I don't think you can blame them for fixing what is very clearly an exploit.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:10 pm

Just making sure. =P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby benebarba » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:16 pm

theckhd wrote:The better question is "will we even notice?" How often do you have over 700k Vengeance AP?


And assuming it isn't just pallies they cap it on, it really is just a reigning in of the insane AP values we knew all tanks could theoretically get. (Honestly I doubt I've ever gotten over ~600K vengence AP for any extended period of time - I don't monitor it though. That would require over 1.5M DPS from the boss right?)

Tempest in a teapot is my read. Vengence is still dumb as implemented, the removal of the cap was fun but I'm not surprised they've introduced a cap again.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby benebarba » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:18 pm

theckhd wrote:
benebarba wrote:Yes. Because for one brief, shining moment we were the OP tanks ;)

I don't think you can blame them for fixing what is very clearly an exploit.


Nope. Some of the details about the SoTR thing were kind of interesting, where server-client lag may actually affect the calculation.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:32 pm

I don't think I've every seen more than 500k total attack power, let alone 500k vengeance. I really don't think this change will make the slightest bit of difference at level 90. Tank damage doesn't go up that much over the course of an expansion. And even if it does, I'm expecting to see 1M hp unbuffed in final tier gear this time around. No way that the damage required to see Vengeance spike up to over a million would be at all healable, especially since they removed the vengeance spikes from special abilities by making it an average of the latest damage taken.

Of course, the upshot of this mess is that we now know on which basis and how the Vengeance is actually calculated (reverse-engineered based on buffs and effects).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby benebarba » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:00 pm

Fetzie wrote:Of course, the upshot of this mess is that we now know on which basis and how the Vengeance is actually calculated (reverse-engineered based on buffs and effects).


Yeah, and that seems like a really cumbersome way to do it: I'd have figured there'd be a boss base damage 'roll' which was then modified by the player's stats, buffs, debuffs, etc. and that modified base damage is what they'd use rather than what seems to be backing it out from the damage actually taken.
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