patch 5.2 ?

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, PsiVen, Sabindeus, Aergis

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby bldavis » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:01 pm

if he had the mobs to begin with, no i dont rip threat off him
if we both reach the mobs, yes i pull more aoe threat
but i am also shite geared (see sig, mortimis)
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 6111
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:51 pm

I raid with a monk.At this point i just afk during trash pulls,i'd end doing nothing anyway

And then every single lfg i can do pretty much the same,unless i meet another paladin or someone that is playing really,really badly.
ImageImage
ImageImage
User avatar
Fenris
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:51 am
Location: Italy

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:03 pm

GC Pally tweets of the day:
Rets and why DS/HotR hit like wet noddles
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status ... 2364016641

Holy Paladins are still somewhat OP
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status ... 9268683776

*facedesk*

Bonus:
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status ... 2815436801

Image
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Levantine » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:19 pm

Well that holy paladin one might be true. It's a PvP tweet and how many of us here actually know how high level pvp works?
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 7367
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:25 pm

Levantine wrote:Well that holy paladin one might be true. It's a PvP tweet and how many of us here actually know how high level pvp works?


I was facedesking at the lack of prot tweets
The Element of Forum Hyperbole
Image
---
Flüttershy - Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus - BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semi-retired)
User avatar
Klaudandus
 
Posts: 9379
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
Location: Texas' Armpit

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Levantine » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:32 pm

Ohh, well that makes more sense. I thought it was more about the... dumbness of the tweets. Although I suppose a lot of that is due to the medium itself.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 7367
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fenris » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:06 pm

From mmo-c

Item - Paladin T15 Protection 2P Bonus (New) Casting Word of Glory or Eternal Flame also grants you 40% additional block chance for 5 sec per Holy Power.
Item - Paladin T15 Protection 4P Bonus (New) You gain 1 Holy Power for each 0% of your health taken as damage while Divine Protection is active.

2p seems really strong (but then i start thinking about all the "should i put up bastion of glory or 2p-bonus" to do on the fly :shock: )
4p...Uhm....

And then on to the class changes..

Talents

Repentance now has a 1.7 sec cast time, up from 1.5 sec.


Set Bonuses

Item - Paladin PvP Set Holy 4P Bonus - Casting Flash of Light grants 1 charge of Holy Power. No longer works off of Word of Glory.


...ok,nevermind,nothing to see there
ImageImage
ImageImage
User avatar
Fenris
 
Posts: 491
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:51 am
Location: Italy

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:21 pm

So... if we can get to 62.4% avoidance and also reliably generate 3 holy power per 15 seconds we could become block capped again?

I'm already at ~50% and I'm stacking haste. Seems totally doable. I hope I miscalculated or something (or that this doesn't go live) because it sounds like some pretty boring gameplay keeping a 15 sec buff up. :/
Frango NewsomNewsSpoon
User avatar
Newsom
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:34 am
Location: Sweden

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Worldie » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:47 pm

I doubt they'd let us become block capped with tier set. It would mean we'd want to stay in T15 even when the following tier is released
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8703
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:51 pm

Uh, aren't we working on a two-roll system? You'd need ~60% block to get capped, regardless of avoidance, then.

I'm just not up to date on this kind of thing, I'd rather shamelessly steal from our resident PhD :-p
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:24 am

Oh, then it makes more sense.
Frango NewsomNewsSpoon
User avatar
Newsom
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:34 am
Location: Sweden

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:34 am

Newsom wrote:Oh, then it makes more sense.


Don't take my word for it - it's mostly hazy memories from Beta, coupled with our current dodge/parry/block interactions.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:24 am

Isn't it 109% block+avoidance required nowadays, now that player miss is irrelevant for PvE and avoidance suppression is something like 1.5% per level difference?
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Newsom » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:59 am

Someone get Theck in here to sort it out! :D
Frango NewsomNewsSpoon
User avatar
Newsom
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:34 am
Location: Sweden

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:09 am

We just need to look up our documentation. Last mention I had was in MArch, when the two-roll thingie got announed, and in August when Theck was working through the stats weights in the late Beta.

So, I'm more inclined to think we're still under the two-rolls system. So in order to block-cap, we need to hit 100% block, regardless of avoidance. Not going to happen.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:35 am

You have a first roll against you:

The first roll decides if the attack will miss, be dodged or parried.

If the attack is not avoided, there is a second roll:

The second roll decides whether the attack will be blocked or not. To guarantee a non-hit, you need 100% block.

Warriors get a tertiary roll to decide if a block will be critical or not.

Lets say you have 5% dodge, 20% parry, 40% block. Fairly typical avoidance and block values when raid buffed.

25% of attacks from a boss are avoided, 75% are eligible to be blocked.

40% of that 75% of attacks are blocked (= 30%). So we have a total of 25+30=55% block+avoid.

Increasing that block chance to 80% results in 60% of all attacks being blocked (0.75*0.8=0.6). So we have 25+60=85% block+avoid.
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:02 am

Block is on a second roll, so avoidance is irrelevant. You need 104.5% block to be block-capped. Remember that a raid boss negates 4.5% dodge, parry, miss, and block. Also remember that block is on diminishing returns. You need about 207.03% block from mastery before diminishing returns to reach block cap (adding in base and spec bonuses after).

Also note that it reads 40% per Holy Power. So the bonus is probably 120% pre-DR.

You can play around with it on my Tankadin spreadsheet. You can arbitrarily add block chance in cell D16. That's equivalent to arbitrarily adding mastery. Putting in 191.19 (plus the 15.84% from mastery I have already) gets you to block cap (104.5% on char sheet) post-DR.
Last edited by theckhd on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:11 am

Image

So that means a good 90% block from outside sources? Is that even conceivable - I don't see us much higher than 20%...
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:13 am

Unless the set bonus is not affected by DR. But that seems awfully unlikely. 120% block without DR automatically block caps us. If you let it be affected by DR, 120% block (put it into cell D16) is about 60% block post-DR, which is still a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if it's supposed to be 40% per 3 holy power (about 30% block post-DR).
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 6211
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:23 am

Unless the "per holy power" was referring to the buff duration, not the block chance (40% block for 5/10/15 seconds instead of 40/80/120% block for 5 seconds).

The former would mean every third ShoR being replaced by a WoG to maintain the buff (would have 3-4 seconds down-time depending on haste level.
Last edited by Fetzie on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fetzie | Protection/Holy Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Former Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Sagara » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:25 am

Re-reading the set bonus, I'm betting donuts it'll be the time that's flexible.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3272
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:06 am

I certainly read it as extending the duration.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 4839
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:09 am

Fetzie wrote:Unless the "per holy power" was referring to the buff duration, not the block chance (40% block for 5/10/15 seconds instead of 40/80/120% block for 5 seconds).

The former would mean every third ShoR being replaced by a WoG to maintain the buff (would have 3-4 seconds down-time depending on haste level.


and it would be a way to give people a way to 'proactively' use WoG. Could be interesting.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby Worldie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:31 am

If you think about it, it wouldnt make any sense to get a buff for "120% block". It would be unintuitive.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8703
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: patch 5.2 ?

Postby benebarba » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:42 am

Worldie wrote:If you think about it, it wouldnt make any sense to get a buff for "120% block". It would be unintuitive.

Well, one could argue that the 2-roll system isn't intuitive - but they did that anyway. So I'm not sure that's necessarily a good argument.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest