Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Brekkie » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:47 pm

Passionario wrote:
Shoju wrote:This wasn't evil. Mental Illness isn't "Evil". It's not the devil. It's not the fucking exorcist. It's real. It is indeed terrible, but not for the reasons that you might think.


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While I get that sometimes people are unfairly belittling of mental illnesses, at the same time, it's not quite that simplistic.

For example, people faking a mental disorder such as panic attacks or PTSD is sadly pretty common, and oftentimes there is no real definitive way of verifying the veracity of their claimed condition because diagnosis boils down to "you tell the doctor you experience symptoms x, y, and z; the doctor believes you because why would you lie". It's not like you can run blood work to establish if someone has PTSD.

But conversely, it's kind of hard to fake having cancer.


It may not be politically correct or culturally sensitive to say it, but there are a non-zero amount of people who fake mental disorders because of either monetary incentives or because it gets them special treatment or serves as an excuse for nonperformance. You can't just brush that factor aside with plithy graphics.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Fivelives » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:57 pm

You can test for some mental illnesses, and there is a definitive diagnostic test for PTSD, specifically.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14728092

But yeah, there are a lot of mental illnesses that can be easily faked. It's sad that people do that, but that's a mental issue in and of itself.

Either way, I'm surprised there isn't more talk here about issues like the fiscal cliff. Pretty sure the gun issue has stalemated here, at the very least.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:03 pm

It doesn't help that under the ADA rules, a guy with Dyslexia can get a handicapped parking permit...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:58 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:56 pm

Brekkie wrote:While I get that sometimes people are unfairly belittling of mental illnesses, at the same time, it's not quite that simplistic.

For example, people faking a mental disorder such as panic attacks or PTSD is sadly pretty common, and oftentimes there is no real definitive way of verifying the veracity of their claimed condition because diagnosis boils down to "you tell the doctor you experience symptoms x, y, and z; the doctor believes you because why would you lie". It's not like you can run blood work to establish if someone has PTSD.


It's normally, a little more involved in that, and while it is common in some circumstances to fake a mental illness, there is a fair bit more to the diagnostic than telling the doctor x y and z, and they believing you.

That's belittling to those who work in the mental health field.

But conversely, it's kind of hard to fake having cancer.


To a doctor? Sure it's hard.
To the public? not really. I've seen it done, convincingly, leading someone to bilk a few thousand bucks, and lots of attention.

It may not be politically correct or culturally sensitive to say it, but there are a non-zero amount of people who fake mental disorders because of either monetary incentives or because it gets them special treatment or serves as an excuse for nonperformance. You can't just brush that factor aside with plithy graphics.


You are correct, but it's also a small amount of people. it isn't the majority. I would wager a healthy sum of money that it is in fact an incredibly small number, and using it as a reason to be skeptical is rather specious.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:00 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:36 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:53 am

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:08 pm

And tangentially related to the shootings... but only in their minds

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/ ... 1e68000019
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:33 pm

Klaudandus wrote:And tangentially related to the shootings... but only in their minds

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/ ... 1e68000019


"the National Rifle Association blamed violent entertainment for recent shootings"

... as opposed to, say, mental illness.

/facepalm
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Delphineas » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:48 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:And tangentially related to the shootings... but only in their minds

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/ ... 1e68000019


"the National Rifle Association blamed violent entertainment for recent shootings"

... as opposed to, say, mental illness.

/facepalm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby bldavis » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:23 pm

where do the draw the line?

hell in mario you jump on goombas, and knock turtles out of their shells, and eat mushrooms, leaves, and flowers for "power ups"

even WoW, you go on genocidal rampages at the request of npcs, and you do it day after day, surely WoW is a violent game too :roll:

anyway...
im...just gonna leave this here
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:40 am

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.wbur.org/2012/11/14/tewksbury-motel-owner-fights-property-seizure


This is incredibly disturbing. Going off of the numbers in the article, 15 drug crimes in 14 years. That's a rate of just over 1 a year. At a hotel that rents 14000 rooms a year.

So....

15 times, out of 210,000, is enough for the government to come in and take your property? That's....

.00007142857%

There is no cause. The Hotel Owner seems to be in good standing with the local police. He's never been charged with a crime, and the local police didn't even think it was a big enough deal to talk with him about it.

“As he describes his job, he looks through the newspapers and looks at the Internet, looking for news stories of properties that might be forfeitable and brings them to the attention of the U.S. attorney,” Caswell’s attorney, Larry Salzman, said.

According to the agent’s sworn testimony, he then goes to the Registry of Deeds to determine the value of the targeted property. The DEA rejects anything with less than $50,000 equity.

In the case of the Caswell, the agent saw its worth close to $1.5 million with no mortgage. That made it a fat target for the U.S. attorney, says another of Caswell’s lawyers, Scott Bullock.


If the facts are even remotely close to being accurate, I have to agree with the lawyer. I may not completely agree that Civil Forfeiture is the devil (My son's mother lost her home because she was RUNNING a crack house, I'm ok with that), in this instance, this is ridiculous.

“This is the exact opposite of the criminal standard where the government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty,” Bullock said. “In civil forfeiture laws you have to prove your innocence. And that’s one of the main reasons that civil forfeiture laws simply should not exist.”


There is something to this statement though. What happened to Innocent until Proven Guilty? Where is the Government's Burden of Proof?

Why isn't the DEA going into Vegas and seizing the Strip?

“I’ve found, which is kind of hard to believe, but I’m responsible for the action of people I don’t even know, I’ve never even met, and for the most part I have no control over them,” Caswell said. “And yet I have to rent them a room unless I have a real good reason not to or I get accused of discrimination and that kind of thing.


It's pretty interesting to think of it that way. As a business Owner, you "technically" have the right to refuse service, but what happens now, in a more interconnected society? Hell, I've seen things blow up on facebook and destroy people, and a small business here locally, and it was completely innaccurate. Someone claimed that they were discriminated against because they were Latino at a local Hair Salon, and the Salon was picketed, it was vandalized, it was all over the facebook. Come to find out? The woman was denied a hair cut and style because she had a raging case of Head Lice. But by the time people were actually listening to reason, the Hair Salon's business had been ruined, the stripmall owner served eviction (thanks to being a new owner of the stripmall, and the salon not having a "formal" lease with the old owners due to length of time in business)

Not the same as what happened to the motel, but it shows the power of social media to believe just about anything they want, and how word spreads. And from the wiki on Tewksberry, it's not even as big of a city as where I live. Word travels fast.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:02 am

Shoju wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:http://www.wbur.org/2012/11/14/tewksbury-motel-owner-fights-property-seizure


This is incredibly disturbing. Going off of the numbers in the article, 15 drug crimes in 14 years. That's a rate of just over 1 a year. At a hotel that rents 14000 rooms a year.

So....


Yup. It surprises me why they don't go after the Motel 6 and the Home Depot.... oh yeah, they got corporate lawyers
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:25 am

It really feels that way. I mean, Are we really going to say that the Vegas Strip Casino Hotels don't have an at least similar .00007142857% Drug Crime Rate over a similar time frame? What about businesses that close at night? Are they going to be held accountable for problems that happen on their property once they are closed? What about Landlords? I just don't see this case as anything except the government going after someone because they can.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:55 am

Shoju wrote:It really feels that way. I mean, Are we really going to say that the Vegas Strip Casino Hotels don't have an at least similar .00007142857% Drug Crime Rate over a similar time frame? What about businesses that close at night? Are they going to be held accountable for problems that happen on their property once they are closed? What about Landlords? I just don't see this case as anything except the government going after someone because they can.


Well, it seems the government is going for a cheap alternative to Eminent Domain.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Nooska » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:21 am

Or its the opening salvo, I mean, if they win against this small motel owner they have a precedent case for going after the big places, then selling it back I would guess - instant revenue... ooor its the case of some agent being personally peeved at the motel for some reason.

also, not fully up to speed on US case law, but as a business owner, are you allowed to arbitrarily deny service, or do you have to have an actual reason to do so (disregard social media etc)?
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:44 am

Nooska wrote:Or its the opening salvo, I mean, if they win against this small motel owner they have a precedent case for going after the big places, then selling it back I would guess - instant revenue... ooor its the case of some agent being personally peeved at the motel for some reason.

also, not fully up to speed on US case law, but as a business owner, are you allowed to arbitrarily deny service, or do you have to have an actual reason to do so (disregard social media etc)?


Technically, yes. But then you open yourself to having to prove it wasn't for discrimination based on race gender age social status, etc...
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Shoju » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:20 am

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-law-wont-pr ... 41200.html

What? So... dude comes into her bedroom, pretends to be her boyfriend, has sex with her, and that's not rape.
But it would have been, had he been impersonating her husband?

I... HOly hell laws are stupid.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:34 am

Interesting. Sounds like the whole reason it's been overturned is to highlight the problem with that particular bit of law and make sure the conviction is re-done as something legally solid (i.e., get them to retrial and convict as initiating sex with sleeping person so that particular legal loophole is dodged).
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:14 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Interesting. Sounds like the whole reason it's been overturned is to highlight the problem with that particular bit of law and make sure the conviction is re-done as something legally solid (i.e., get them to retrial and convict as initiating sex with sleeping person so that particular legal loophole is dodged).
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:40 am

Yup. Republicans and their usual "Fark you, I got mine"
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013 ... hp?ref=fpa
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:47 pm

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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:06 pm


I hope that's a euphamism.
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Re: Politics (formerly Election 2012)

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:28 pm

Koatanga wrote:

I hope that's a euphamism.


Not sure if calling it "Tiny Penis Appreciation Day" would be any better.
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