Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
theckhd wrote:Except you might get more DPS from upgrading your chest, because weapon DPS is fairly weak for us compared to most other classes. Remember that the only thing in our arsenal that scales with weapon DPS is Crusader Strike, while everything scales with AP.
I stand corrected then. I wouldve thought that the strength, stamina + secondary stats on top of that dps would prove to be a higher dps increase than chest/legs/helm.
 Hespherus
 Posts: 158
 Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:03 am
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
Hespherus wrote:theckhd wrote:Except you might get more DPS from upgrading your chest, because weapon DPS is fairly weak for us compared to most other classes. Remember that the only thing in our arsenal that scales with weapon DPS is Crusader Strike, while everything scales with AP.
I stand corrected then. I wouldve thought that the strength, stamina + secondary stats on top of that dps would prove to be a higher dps increase than chest/legs/helm.
Going from the LFR Kilrak weapon at 483 item level to the normal version (496) you get:
89 Sta
60 Str
39 Mastery (0.22)
41 Hit (0.4%)
Upgrading a Breastplate of the King's Guard from LFR (476) to normal (489) you get
196 Sta
131 Str
76 Mastery (0.42)
232 Armor
94 Haste (0.73%)
Fetzie  Protection Paladin  EUKazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long

Fetzie  Posts: 2199
 Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
How much more dps though?. Im not concerned with my survivability that much(i am hit/exp capped and 600k unbuffed though), i am concerned about killing stuff faster and doing my best to help that happening.
 Hespherus
 Posts: 158
 Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:03 am
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
Now that I have a few minutes, let's look at them directly. From the weapon comparison:
Note that this is with SoT too, but that doesn't depend on weapon DPS and it's a small contribution. So you get about 630 DPS by upgrading Kilrak by 13 ilvls, or about 560 DPS if you're already at hitcap. The actual value will be closer to the first value, assuming you're reforging for hit/exp caps.
Using Fetzie's numbers, you get 196 STA and 94 haste by upgrading the breastplate. Nothing else gives a DPS contribution. At 100k Vengeance, strength gives you about 1.31 DPS per point. The strength is going to give you about 257 DPS, and the haste about 172 DPS, for a total of 429 DPS from upgrading the chest. If the other secondary stat had been a DPS stat as well (ex: hit or exp), then we'd be effectively getting another 76 haste, for an additional 139 DPS, giving us 568. Not quite the match of the weapon upgrade, but awfully close.
So the weapon will probably edge out the chest/legs/helm slots for raw DPS. Especially on items that have reduced strength itemization.
 Code: Select all
   cfg1  cfg1  cfg2  cfg2 
 Weapon  ilvl  DPS  HPS  DPS  HPS 
 Kilrak, Jaws of Terror (Raid Finder)  483  78251  0  85841  0 
 Kilrak, Jaws of Terror  496  78881  0  86405  0 
Note that this is with SoT too, but that doesn't depend on weapon DPS and it's a small contribution. So you get about 630 DPS by upgrading Kilrak by 13 ilvls, or about 560 DPS if you're already at hitcap. The actual value will be closer to the first value, assuming you're reforging for hit/exp caps.
Using Fetzie's numbers, you get 196 STA and 94 haste by upgrading the breastplate. Nothing else gives a DPS contribution. At 100k Vengeance, strength gives you about 1.31 DPS per point. The strength is going to give you about 257 DPS, and the haste about 172 DPS, for a total of 429 DPS from upgrading the chest. If the other secondary stat had been a DPS stat as well (ex: hit or exp), then we'd be effectively getting another 76 haste, for an additional 139 DPS, giving us 568. Not quite the match of the weapon upgrade, but awfully close.
So the weapon will probably edge out the chest/legs/helm slots for raw DPS. Especially on items that have reduced strength itemization.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7852
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
Found this on MMOChampion:
Enchantments using the Real PPM system will now generate two buffs simultaneously, rather than simply refreshing the duration of an existing effect.

DisRuptive1  Posts: 181
 Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 12:50 pm
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
Certainly of relevance, though I don't know that it will change the results very much. Tlitp has been working on the enchant modeling code (I think), so this will probably complicate his job (more states to consider).
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7852
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
I'm just wondering if those double buffs will stack, or it's just a cosmetic thing to make tracking the buffs easier.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.
halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Worldie  Global Mod
 Posts: 13381
 Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
 Location: Italy
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
They stack. The change is a response to dual wield classes taking a nerf when they moved to RPPM and the buffs stopped stacking.
 KysenMurrin
 Posts: 6833
 Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
 Location: UK
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
Hi, I got a short question considering AP,
is this still true in MoP?
1 strength = 2 AP.
Autoattack scales like this: 14 AP = 1 DPS
also someone told me that 1 Strength = 0.9 parry rating
true or false and if false what are the right values?
is there a post explaining how the new vengeance works exactly? I wasn't able to find one
thank you very much in advance.
is this still true in MoP?
1 strength = 2 AP.
Autoattack scales like this: 14 AP = 1 DPS
also someone told me that 1 Strength = 0.9 parry rating
true or false and if false what are the right values?
is there a post explaining how the new vengeance works exactly? I wasn't able to find one
thank you very much in advance.

Schroom  Posts: 574
 Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:03 pm
 Location: Luxembourg
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
On the first page of this thread, and if im not mistaken and am interpreting those graphs correctly, 1 strength is roughly 1.3 dps. You get 13 dps from 10 strength.
 Hespherus
 Posts: 158
 Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:03 am
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
1 strength is not = 13 dps, it contributes 13 dps (provided you interpret the graphs correctly, I haven't checked)
14 AP = 1 dps (on the weapon dps).
14 AP also increases the AP component of scaling, while increasing the weapon damage component, so abilities with weapon damage and AP scaling double dip into AP.
As for how mcuh AP STR (or AGI) contributes, I am unsure  I am working from 1 base unit = 2 AP, but the ingame tooltip disagrees with me (though the ingame tooltip disagreed at the time where it was known to be tru as well).
14 AP = 1 dps (on the weapon dps).
14 AP also increases the AP component of scaling, while increasing the weapon damage component, so abilities with weapon damage and AP scaling double dip into AP.
As for how mcuh AP STR (or AGI) contributes, I am unsure  I am working from 1 base unit = 2 AP, but the ingame tooltip disagrees with me (though the ingame tooltip disagreed at the time where it was known to be tru as well).

Nooska  Posts: 1516
 Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
ok thanks that's what I was looking for.
now a concrete explanation how vengeance works exactly would be awesome (I tried to find it here but my search skills seem to be nonpresent today...) as they changed vengeance to not skale with overdeath damage, Stamina should make a, even tho it would be tiny I guess, DPS contribution, doesn't it?
now a concrete explanation how vengeance works exactly would be awesome (I tried to find it here but my search skills seem to be nonpresent today...) as they changed vengeance to not skale with overdeath damage, Stamina should make a, even tho it would be tiny I guess, DPS contribution, doesn't it?

Schroom  Posts: 574
 Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:03 pm
 Location: Luxembourg
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
Nooska wrote:1 strength is not = 13 dps, it contributes 13 dps (provided you interpret the graphs correctly, I haven't checked)
It's 1.3 DPS per strength, the plots show DPS per 10 itemization points.
Nooska wrote:14 AP also increases the AP component of scaling, while increasing the weapon damage component, so abilities with weapon damage and AP scaling double dip into AP.
While true, we don't have any more abilities that do this. HotR was the last one, and now just scales off of normalized weapon damage.
Nooska wrote:As for how mcuh AP STR (or AGI) contributes, I am unsure  I am working from 1 base unit = 2 AP, but the ingame tooltip disagrees with me (though the ingame tooltip disagreed at the time where it was known to be tru as well).
It's 2 points of AP per point of strength. The exact formula is in stat_model:
 Code: Select all
player.ap=floor((base.ap+gear.ap+(player.str10).*cnv.str_ap+extra.ap ...
+player.VengAP+consum.ap).*mdf.AP);
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7852
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
Schroom wrote:now a concrete explanation how vengeance works exactly would be awesome (I tried to find it here but my search skills seem to be nonpresent today...) as they changed vengeance to not skale with overdeath damage, Stamina should make a, even tho it would be tiny I guess, DPS contribution, doesn't it?
It averages out to 40% of the boss's premitigation DPS output (2% of damage done in the last 20 seconds, or 0.02*(DPS*20)=0.4*DPS). I'm not sure I've seen a good explanation of how the overkill suppression works  my guess is that they hardcoded certain abilities like Annihilate (Spirit Kings) to generate Vengeance based on damage done instead of premitigation DPS. It's also possible that they just capped the Vengeance gain from any single attack based on your health though.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7852
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Theck's MATLAB thread  MoP/5.x
exactly, so if the last one would be true. Stamina would have a (if even very small) impact on our DPS :> just finding this interesting ^^

Schroom  Posts: 574
 Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:03 pm
 Location: Luxembourg
Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: marsbubble and 1 guest