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[Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:30 am

I prefer glyphed to unglyphed most of the time. More flexible, and a lot of fights just tend to work out long enough for 3 casts.

Right now we're killing Gara'jal fast enough that I'm thinking of glyphing again, because I'm not getting full duration and it isn't overlapping with Heroism any more.

More thoughts, based on further progression and seeing new fights on LFR:

- Thinking of dropping Astral Shift for Stone Bulwark Totem for Blade Lord Ta'yak. Shift makes a big difference for Unseen Strikes, but it's starting to feel like survival in phase 2, with the constant AoE pulse, is more important, and Stone Bulwark is designed for frequent minor damage.

- Ancestral Guidance and Healing Stream Totem can both heal Tsulong during the day phase in Terrace. Not sure how effective later in the fight, when the health is higher, because they're smart heals that hit the lowest targets, but worth using.

- At least on LFR, glyphed Fire Elemental was coming up during Day phases after being used in Night on Tsulong. Will have to judge when I get to the real thing, but Healing Storm might be worthwhile here if the 5 minute timer on totem works out.

- Enhancement is terrible for the "Hide" phase on Lei Shi. The only thing you can do is drop a magme totem and wait around.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby JoeBravo » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:46 am

KysenMurrin wrote:...

- Thinking of dropping Astral Shift for Stone Bulwark Totem for Blade Lord Ta'yak. Shift makes a big difference for Unseen Strikes, but it's starting to feel like survival in phase 2, with the constant AoE pulse, is more important, and Stone Bulwark is designed for frequent minor damage.

just went the other way myself: being able to survive that one big hit usually is more important than preventing frequent minor damage. even on blade lord.
I spec into healing tide there. AG relies to much on ascendance to be usefull there (for elemental at least).
- Ancestral Guidance and Healing Stream Totem can both heal Tsulong during the day phase in Terrace. Not sure how effective later in the fight, when the health is higher, because they're smart heals that hit the lowest targets, but worth using.

adds felt too spread out to make AG usefull to me. for me it needs either CL spam or ascendance-LvB spam which both seemed useless there.
- At least on LFR, glyphed Fire Elemental was coming up during Day phases after being used in Night on Tsulong. Will have to judge when I get to the real thing, but Healing Storm might be worthwhile here if the 5 minute timer on totem works out.

- Enhancement is terrible for the "Hide" phase on Lei Shi. The only thing you can do is drop a magme totem and wait around.

elementals earthquake doesn't add a whole lot there either.

I'm currently a bit frustrated with my statweights. Was reading that crit is quite close in value to haste and mastery, but even at 675 crit vs 8k mastery and 6k haste, it's still my worst stat. It also felt odd to see it took this long for mastery to overtake haste in value, but I guess that's due to the passive 3k bonus we provide.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:09 am

Yeah, the talents are gonna be very different between Elemental and Enhancement. But I've heard that Healing Tide just doesn't put out the same amount of raw healing - not anywhere close - that Ancestral Guidance does. Maybe it's just a matter of spell scaling for the melee spec. I was popping it when I was on the big elite add for Tsulong, but of course ranged dps will be on the smaller adds with more movement and less time on target.

Bearing in mind this was only LFR, I was 2nd place on overall healing done after the 6 healers - though my healing amount was still pretty small (2 million, I think).

You may be right about Astral Shift. It's just that a) it's only up for one in every 4 or so Unseen Strikes, and b) I've consistently had trouble with being one of the first people to reach the boss on p2 (Ghost Wolf + Spirit Walk) and just dying slowly to AoE. What kind of absorb amounts do you get out of Stone Bulwark?
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby Levantine » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:51 am

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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby JoeBravo » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:13 am

not checking very often but last time I checked tooltip it was 1x50k+4(?)x15k
Not sure if that was in elemental or resto either, now that I think obout it...
I'll have to check again this evening.

AG can indeed do a lot more healing than HTT, but, it only does when I use it together with ascendance. And saving my only and defining dps cooldown for a bit of healing doesn't sound like the way to go. :P
HTT heals for about 600k for me and being able to use it when it's needed independant of my dps ones feels like a bigger contribution than the big numbers AG+ascendance gives me.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby JoeBravo » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:21 am



don't even have to check the link to know what it's about (play both elemental and resto frequently) and the difference is indeed freakin' huge.

Those healingtalents for elemental (and enh too I think) are very situational. conductivity takes a frequent cast of a healing spell and a lot a mana, AG needs to be combined with a dps cd to get the most out of it which often doesn't line up with high damage intake and non-resto HTT is nowhere near as powerfull as the resto version.

edit:
checked last thursdays log for a HTT comparison: ~20k ticks as elemental vs. ~50k ticks as resto. 6x5 ticks gives 600k vs 1500k total.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:20 pm

But the difference is big enough that even without lining up your cooldowns, AG should still do better healing than the totem.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby JoeBravo » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:07 am

KysenMurrin wrote:But the difference is big enough that even without lining up your cooldowns, AG should still do better healing than the totem.


from the top of my head:
my non-gimmick single target dps without ascendance is 40-50k at best. AG is 40% of your dps for 10 seconds as healing. 50k x 10 x 0.4 = 200k.
I read the 3 targets parts as 200k/3 per target. but even if it's 200k x 3 total healing, AG and HTT are about equal.
AG has a shorter cd but requires a target to dps, HTT is a guaranteed heal that spreads it's healing a bit more equal (5 targets instead of 3).

The difference with the resto version makes it look worse than it actually is imo.
Also, resto healing is too dependant on HTT output for my taste, I wouldn't mind it getting nerfed a bit and overall healing buffed.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby Levantine » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:48 am

Last time I checked the tooltip for AG was misleading, it works out to be 120% of your damage as healing for the duration. I had much the same thought when I first read it (i.e. well that's a crap cooldown). I don't buy requiring a target to dps as a legitimate concern given current encounter design (maybe Epicenter depending on guild strat/competence with regards to crystal skills). Also the target limitation is sketchy since to my knowledge they're both smart heals and not limited to the same three\five targets and will heal whoever 'needs' it the most as calculated with each tick.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby JoeBravo » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:32 am

3x40%=120%, so my comparison holds: 3x200k = 600k for both a single a non-ascendance AG and an HTT.
so it's the shorter cd and the possibility to combine it with ascendance that makes AG pull ahead.
Nevertheless, for some fights the ability to be able to raidheal whithout the need to hit something can be a benefit and HTT is a viable choice. (phase 2 bladelord being being the best example)

you are right about the smart healing: both HTT and AG check for each tick what target to heal.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:59 am

JoeBravo wrote:so it's the shorter cd

Well there you have it. If they do similar healing per cast, but one has a 2 min cooldown and the other is 3 min, then you're getting more from the former.

Doesn't quite hold up for Tsulong, of course, because of the 2-minutes-per-phase time meaning you can only use either of them once per Day phase - and Tsulong Day phase is an area where Totem is a worthwhile possibility I think, because of target swapping. Then again, if the Totem splits the same overall healing between 5 targets instead of 3, then less healing is going onto Tsulong. Hmm.

Regarding Blade Lord, I like a) using AG after an Unseen Strike, which is better than totem because of the lower cooldown and full time on single target anyway, and b) using it to heal up after reaching the boss through the gauntlet (advantage: my 3 min cooldowns always come up to use in P2, which boosts AG further).
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby Levantine » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:01 am

Admittedly my experience is limited to lfr strat videos and looking at the dungeon journal so I'm more an willing to concede that htt has its upsides on certain encounters. It just seems to me that ag has more to offer in a general setting to the point where it's my default pick unless mechanics specifically favour htt. May change when I eventually get around to doing something with my shaman, may not.

It's also worth pointing out that in my experience with the people I raid with more focused healing on fewer targets is better than healing more targets for less, but that's very specific to the people I raid with.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:05 am

Ancestral Guidance is my default choice too. I'm not sure I'd pick HTT for any fight, tbh. If I was ranged the choice might change (see: lots of target swapping on Tsulong, versus melee getting to focus the big add).

Ancestral Guidance does have one big advantage I hope we can agree on: It is freaking awesome during AoE.
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby JoeBravo » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:01 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Ancestral Guidance is my default choice too. I'm not sure I'd pick HTT for any fight, tbh. If I was ranged the choice might change (see: lots of target swapping on Tsulong, versus melee getting to focus the big add).

Ancestral Guidance does have one big advantage I hope we can agree on: It is freaking awesome during AoE.


AG was default for me, switched to HTT for bladelord (popping it while running) and not bothered sofar to switch back.
And yea, AG is awesome during aoe. And on Elegon P1's :P
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Re: [Shaman] Advanced Tips and Advice?

Postby JoeBravo » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:15 am

statweights for secondary stats for elemental are frustrating: did 2 reforges and my mastery>haste>=crit prio changed to haste>mastery>crit again...
So using any kind of reforge addon is basically useless, because the statweights depend on their relative value too much.
I think I'm gonna keep my masteryrating at about 30-40% ahead of hasterating and critrating at about 20% of my hasterating.
Anyone know a site/addon that can do reforging like that (and cap hit at the same time)?
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