Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

[Fetzie]

Except you might get more DPS from upgrading your chest, because weapon DPS is fairly weak for us compared to most other classes. Remember that the only thing in our arsenal that scales with weapon DPS is Crusader Strike, while everything scales with AP.

I stand corrected then. I wouldve thought that the strength, stamina + secondary stats on top of that dps would prove to be a higher dps increase than chest/legs/helm.

Going from the LFR Kilrak weapon at 483 item level to the normal version (496) you get:

89 Sta
60 Str
39 Mastery (0.22)
41 Hit (0.4%)

Upgrading a Breastplate of the King's Guard from LFR (476) to normal (489) you get

196 Sta
131 Str
76 Mastery (0.42)
232 Armor
94 Haste (0.73%)

[Hespherus]

How much more dps though?. Im not concerned with my survivability that much(i am hit/exp capped and 600k unbuffed though), i am concerned about killing stuff faster and doing my best to help that happening.

[theckhd]

Now that I have a few minutes, let's look at them directly. From the weapon comparison:

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|                                            |      |  cfg1 | cfg1 |  cfg2 | cfg2 |
| Weapon                                     | ilvl |   DPS |  HPS |   DPS |  HPS |
| Kilrak, Jaws of Terror (Raid Finder)       |  483 | 78251 |    0 | 85841 |    0 |
| Kilrak, Jaws of Terror                     |  496 | 78881 |    0 | 86405 |    0 |


Note that this is with SoT too, but that doesn't depend on weapon DPS and it's a small contribution. So you get about 630 DPS by upgrading Kilrak by 13 ilvls, or about 560 DPS if you're already at hit-cap. The actual value will be closer to the first value, assuming you're reforging for hit/exp caps.

Using Fetzie's numbers, you get 196 STA and 94 haste by upgrading the breastplate. Nothing else gives a DPS contribution. At 100k Vengeance, strength gives you about 1.31 DPS per point. The strength is going to give you about 257 DPS, and the haste about 172 DPS, for a total of 429 DPS from upgrading the chest. If the other secondary stat had been a DPS stat as well (ex: hit or exp), then we'd be effectively getting another 76 haste, for an additional 139 DPS, giving us 568. Not quite the match of the weapon upgrade, but awfully close.

So the weapon will probably edge out the chest/legs/helm slots for raw DPS. Especially on items that have reduced strength itemization.

[DisRuptive1]

Found this on MMO-Champion:

Enchantments using the Real PPM system will now generate two buffs simultaneously, rather than simply refreshing the duration of an existing effect.

[theckhd]

Certainly of relevance, though I don't know that it will change the results very much. Tlitp has been working on the enchant modeling code (I think), so this will probably complicate his job (more states to consider).

[Worldie]

I'm just wondering if those double buffs will stack, or it's just a cosmetic thing to make tracking the buffs easier.

[KysenMurrin]

They stack. The change is a response to dual wield classes taking a nerf when they moved to RPPM and the buffs stopped stacking.

[Schroom]

Hi, I got a short question considering AP,
is this still true in MoP?

1 strength = 2 AP.
Autoattack scales like this: 14 AP = 1 DPS

also someone told me that 1 Strength = 0.9 parry rating

true or false and if false what are the right values?

is there a post explaining how the new vengeance works exactly? I wasn't able to find one

thank you very much in advance.

[Hespherus]

On the first page of this thread, and if im not mistaken and am interpreting those graphs correctly, 1 strength is roughly 1.3 dps. You get 13 dps from 10 strength.

[Nooska]

1 strength is not = 13 dps, it contributes 13 dps (provided you interpret the graphs correctly, I haven't checked)

14 AP = 1 dps (on the weapon dps).
14 AP also increases the AP component of scaling, while increasing the weapon damage component, so abilities with weapon damage and AP scaling double dip into AP.

As for how mcuh AP STR (or AGI) contributes, I am unsure - I am working from 1 base unit = 2 AP, but the ingame tooltip disagrees with me (though the ingame tooltip disagreed at the time where it was known to be tru as well).

[Schroom]

ok thanks that's what I was looking for.

now a concrete explanation how vengeance works exactly would be awesome (I tried to find it here but my search skills seem to be non-present today...) as they changed vengeance to not skale with overdeath damage, Stamina should make a, even tho it would be tiny I guess, DPS contribution, doesn't it?

[theckhd]

1 strength is not = 13 dps, it contributes 13 dps (provided you interpret the graphs correctly, I haven't checked)

It's 1.3 DPS per strength, the plots show DPS per 10 itemization points.

14 AP also increases the AP component of scaling, while increasing the weapon damage component, so abilities with weapon damage and AP scaling double dip into AP.

While true, we don't have any more abilities that do this. HotR was the last one, and now just scales off of normalized weapon damage.

As for how mcuh AP STR (or AGI) contributes, I am unsure - I am working from 1 base unit = 2 AP, but the ingame tooltip disagrees with me (though the ingame tooltip disagreed at the time where it was known to be tru as well).

It's 2 points of AP per point of strength. The exact formula is in stat_model:

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player.ap=floor((base.ap+gear.ap+(player.str-10).*cnv.str_ap+extra.ap ...
          +player.VengAP+consum.ap).*mdf.AP);


[theckhd]

now a concrete explanation how vengeance works exactly would be awesome (I tried to find it here but my search skills seem to be non-present today...) as they changed vengeance to not skale with overdeath damage, Stamina should make a, even tho it would be tiny I guess, DPS contribution, doesn't it?

It averages out to 40% of the boss's pre-mitigation DPS output (2% of damage done in the last 20 seconds, or 0.02*(DPS*20)=0.4*DPS). I'm not sure I've seen a good explanation of how the overkill suppression works - my guess is that they hard-coded certain abilities like Annihilate (Spirit Kings) to generate Vengeance based on damage done instead of pre-mitigation DPS. It's also possible that they just capped the Vengeance gain from any single attack based on your health though.

[Schroom]

exactly, so if the last one would be true. Stamina would have a (if even very small) impact on our DPS :> just finding this interesting ^^

[theckhd]

exactly, so if the last one would be true. Stamina would have a (if even very small) impact on our DPS :> just finding this interesting ^^

Not in normal circumstances. It would only kick in on attacks that you'd have to cheese with Ardent Defender (or similar cooldowns) to survive. Most boss encounters don't have that sort of mechanic.