A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:55 am

RPPM testing, round #1:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k ... details/0/

First test: Does Censure proc RPPM effects? Tested by applying Censure and looking for EF procs after auto-attacks ceased. Result:
Code: Select all
[13:42:43.539] Training Dummy afflicted by Censure from Theck
[13:42:43.539] Theck Seal of Truth Training Dummy 1 (O: 78)
[13:42:43.539] Theck Elemental Force Training Dummy 1 (O: 2969)
[13:42:46.544] Theck Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 134)
[13:42:47.142] Theck Elemental Force Training Dummy 1 (O: 2846)
[13:42:49.540] Theck Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 135)
[13:42:49.890] Theck Elemental Force Training Dummy *1* (O: 6097)
[13:42:52.558] Theck Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 135)
[13:42:53.199] Theck Elemental Force Training Dummy 1 (O: 2996)


Second test: Does EF proc RPPM effects? Tested by building up HP and self-casting Eternal Flame, first with an Elemental Force weapon (control) and then with Windsong (test). Result: 0 EF procs observed:
Code: Select all
[13:43:28.792] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 14370)
[13:43:28.792] Theck gains Eternal Flame from Theck
[13:43:28.792] Theck casts Eternal Flame on Theck
[13:43:28.792] Theck's Pursuit of Justice fades from Theck
[13:43:31.788] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:32.749] Theck's Physical Vulnerability fades from Training Dummy
[13:43:34.722] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1052)
[13:43:37.771] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:40.807] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1052)
[13:43:43.808] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:46.791] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:49.182] Theck's Seal of Truth fades from Theck
[13:43:49.182] Theck gains Seal of Insight from Theck
[13:43:49.182] Theck casts Seal of Insight
[13:43:49.823] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:52.705] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:55.805] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +1051
[13:43:58.765] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +1052
[13:43:58.765] Theck's Eternal Flame fades from Theck


Multiple Windsong procs observed:
Code: Select all
[13:44:10.431] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +47580
[13:44:10.431] Theck gains Eternal Flame from Theck
[13:44:10.431] Theck casts Eternal Flame on Theck
[13:44:10.431] Theck's Pursuit of Justice fades from Theck
[13:44:10.754] Theck's Windsong is refreshed by Theck
[13:44:12.778] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:15.152] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:15.152] Theck gains Windsong from Theck
[13:44:17.541] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:19.922] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3894
[13:44:22.313] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:22.728] Theck's Windsong fades from Theck
[13:44:24.652] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3894
[13:44:27.102] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +*8021*
[13:44:27.237] Theck's Windsong fades from Theck
[13:44:29.378] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:29.662] Theck gains Windsong from Theck
[13:44:31.853] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:32.348] Theck's Physical Vulnerability fades from Training Dummy
[13:44:34.264] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:36.631] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:34 pm

Part II - Paladin Multi-Dotting.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9 ... s=61&e=546

Applied and maintained Seal of Truth on two low-level training dummies for ~8 minutes, naked with 0% haste and an EF-enchanted weapon. Observed 44 procs in 485 seconds, or roughly one proc every 11 seconds, only about ~5.5 procs per minute. Oddly low compared to the expected ~10 PPM. It does not appear that RPPM effects are calculated per-target, at any rate.

Control run: attacked a single low-level training dummy for ~15 minutes to see if the proc rate increased or decreased significantly.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-e ... s=11&e=986
88 procs in 975 seconds, again almost exactly 11 seconds between procs, or 5.4 RPPM. Something seems funny with EF - it may not be the proc rate advertised.

In any event, this test confirms that multi-dotting doesn't increase the proc rate.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:52 pm

Part III - miss/dodge/parry triggers
Setup: L85 Fury warrior, dual-wielding Experimental Specimen Slicer (3.6 speed, no hit/exp) and Ataraxis, Cudgel of the Warmaster (3.6 speed, no hit/exp). Naked otherwise, 0% hit, 0%/1% expertise for MH/OH. Attacking a Raider's Training Dummy from the front.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4 ... details/2/

Observed procs on glances, but not a single proc from a missed, dodged, or parried attack in ~10 minutes of auto-attacks. The advertised behavior of being able to proc on missed/dodged/parried attacks is patently false.

Notably, I saw quite a few "double procs," where one glanced melee attack would trigger two Elemental Force procs. So it's clear that the implementation actually rolls twice per melee attack if you have both weapons enchanted while dual-wielding, rather than simply doubling the probability accumulation rate and rolling once.

Also observed quite a few missed EF procs (as in, the effect procced but missed the target), including only one miss in a pair of procs from a single attack. So each proc also makes its own independent hit/miss roll, presumably on the spell hit table.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:13 pm

Live-logging test #47 - L85 rogue (Fein) using dual 397 daggers enchanted with EF. Couldn't reforge all of the haste away, so there's a residual 126 haste rating (0.98%), 11.08% on char sheet (from 10% melee attack speed buff).

Live-log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tdaohzijsme3d2av
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:34 pm

I've been blanketing the poor Theck with requests, but, alas, it has paid off. Very interesting results.

Three distinct notes :
1. We'll need to test EtFl again, once 5.1 goes live, with the other RPPM options.
2. ElFo's proc chance is peculiar, but at this point I don't think it warrants special testing. Discerning between 5 and 6 RPPM would need a long test (1h+), therefore I suggest to postpone it until 5.1.
3. Regarding the last bit, I'm not really sure what to make of it. Did any "blue" explicitly state that RPPM dynamic effects would/should be triggered on cast ? To me that statement looked conspicuous from the very beginning, thus I've asked you to actually give it a shot. :P
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:30 pm

I may have been mixing up blue posts. This is the one I was thinking of that mentioned dodge/parry, but it looks like it was only relevant to River's Song and Colossus:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... page=8#154
[list][*]River's Song: 2PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried.[*]Dancing Steel: 1PPM on melee attacks that land.[*]Colossus: 3PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried, with a 3-second cooldown.[*]Elemental Force: 5PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 0.1-second cooldown.[*]Jade Spirit: 10% chance on spell damage or healing, 50-second cooldown.[*]Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown.


The RPPM post doesn't mention dodge/parry at all. So we'll have to wait until 5.1 to test whether that remains the case with the RPPM implementation of RS and Colossus.

I got logged off while doing the melee attack speed test. Is the data collected sufficient? If not, I'll have to try and log another hour or two Friday or Saturday.
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Re:

Postby benebarba » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:08 am

theckhd wrote:Current Parse Requests:

Test #34: Light's Hammer target cap
  • Level: 90
  • Gear: Any
  • Target: A group of exactly N mobs. Mob level is irrelevant.
  • Attack Sequence: Cast a single Light's Hammer once all mobs are in range and grouped up.
  • Goal: Repeat this for N=5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 15.
  • Report: build, AP/SP, upload combat log. Preferably a different log for each N.


Does it matter if they are friendly (healing) vs hostile (damage)? Or should this be tried with both?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:31 am

I was mostly interested in hostile targets, but testing both would probably be a good idea.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby jere » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:47 am

In the hotfixes for Dec 3, there was a change listed for Holy Wrath (I think...I can't verify from here). Might be worth checking out.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:37 am

Wording was "now scales correctly with attack power and spell power". Definately needs retesting.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Nooska » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:53 am

As opposed to how it worked with 5.1, which broke scaling from AP and SP.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:31 am

My Holy Wrath (no glyphs that interact with the ability) is doing 25740-25741 (does one or the other) damage to a level 90 training dummy right now (18:29 CET, 4th Dec). It deals the same amount of damage to a boss level training dummy.

Blood Elf paladin (176 base strength)
11655 strength
23560 melee attack power
11780 spell power

If you want a combatlog, then say so :)
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:46 pm

jere wrote:In the hotfixes for Dec 3, there was a change listed for Holy Wrath (I think...I can't verify from here). Might be worth checking out.

It was just a bugfix. 5.1 accidentally removed the AP/SP scaling. They just re-instated it, the formula hasn't changed since 5.0.5. Fetzie's data is consistent with the current model (4300+0.91*AP).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:13 am

New test for the SOI proc rate buff:
Test #51: SoI proc rate buff
  • Gear: any
  • Seal: SoI
  • Buffs/Talents/Glyphs/Etc: Any
  • Target: Any dummy
  • Attack sequence: auto-attacks only, faster weapons preferable
  • Goal: Over 100 successful auto-attacks against the dummy.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:57 am

Answered my own question:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7 ... etails/16/

200 melee attacks, 179 SoI procs, 89.5% proc rate. For such a small sample size, that's reasonably good confirmation that we're now at 20 PPM.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:25 am

theckhd wrote:Answered my own question:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7 ... etails/16/

200 melee attacks, 179 SoI procs, 89.5% proc rate. For such a small sample size, that's reasonably good confirmation that we're now at 20 PPM.


I assume that's good
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:12 pm

Well, it's unquestionably a buff. :P
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:42 pm

While we've exhaustively tested offensive armor formulas, it seems we haven't done our due diligence on the defensive side. So far we've been using K=58370 for the armor constant of a level 90 player. Technically we use a formula which gives this number, but I don't remember testing the formula during beta (nor documenting it in this thread). My best guess is that it's from another source, either early beta datamining or it's the equation we've been using since Cataclysm.

In any event, it seems pretty clear that it's wrong. I was testing some things today and noticed that with 57030 armor, I had 55.21% damage reduction on my character sheet rather than the 49.42% predicted by A/(A+K). I took a quick data set of armor and character sheet mitigation:

Code: Select all
    0               0
5160           10.04
6494           12.31
12845           21.73
18261            28.3
25605           35.63
31277           40.34
37663           44.88
42305           47.77
45855           49.78
49724           51.81
52485           53.15
57030           55.21


Throwing that into matlab and fitting to 100*x/(x+K) gives me the following result:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 100*x/(x+K)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       K =  4.626e+004  (4.626e+004, 4.626e+004)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 9.676e-005
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.00284


A further fit to 100*x/(x+46260+K) narrows down the last digit some:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 100*x/(x+46260+K)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       K =      -1.048  (-4.834, 2.737)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 9.676e-005
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.00284

From this, it seems that the armor constant at L90 is actually K=46259 +/-3. I would appreciate some additional data sets from anyone who's got 5-10 minutes to spare. All I need is the character sheet armor values and mitigation percentages (from the armor tooltip). Level 90 paladins only, class/race/spec shouldn't matter. As many data points as you can submit would be great, ideally everything from naked to fully geared.

Actually, skip naked and go right to one piece of armor equipped. I don't need 100 data points to tell me that 0 armor gives 0% mitigation.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:52 pm

i blame that on GC, he's the one that gave us the armor value.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:02 pm

Klaudandus wrote:i blame that on GC, he's the one that gave us the armor value.

Did he? That would explain why we didn't test it (shame on us, though!).

If you could dig up a link to that post, I'd appreciate it. Once we have enough data to be convinced of this, I might write a short blog post to spread the word.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:09 pm

theckhd wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:i blame that on GC, he's the one that gave us the armor value.

Did he? That would explain why we didn't test it (shame on us, though!).

If you could dig up a link to that post, I'd appreciate it. Once we have enough data to be convinced of this, I might write a short blog post to spread the word.


My bad... What he gave us was the value for the armor for the dummies

24835

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2274 ... -analysis/

Also

It continues on to level 93. Just to clarify to make sure there are no misunderstandings, adding denotation for which variables are of the target and which are of the attacker:
DamageReduction = TargetArmor / (TargetArmor + 4037.5*AttackerLevel – 317117.5).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Thels » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:32 am

Tested on a level 90 Human Female Protection Paladin:

1287 Armor = 2.71%
2543 Armor = 5.21%
3830 Armor = 7.65%
5029 Armor = 9.81%
6226 Armor = 11.86%
7166 Armor = 13.41%
9565 Armor = 17.13%
10874 Armor = 19.03%
11673 Armor = 20.15%
14951 Armor = 24.43%
16935 Armor = 26.80%
19398 Armor = 29.55%
21472 Armor = 31.70%
24815 Armor = 34.92%
25631 Armor = 35.65%
26944 Armor = 36.81%
29034 Armor = 38.56%
30371 Armor = 39.63%
32815 Armor = 41.50%
34128 Armor = 42.46%
36772 Armor = 44.25%
38421 Armor = 45.37%
39996 Armor = 46.37%
41277 Armor = 47.16%
42464 Armor = 47.86%
44218 Armor = 48.87%
46346 Armor = 50.05%
47628 Armor = 50.73%
49774 Armor = 51.83%
51031 Armor = 52.45%
52218 Armor = 53.03%
54812 Armor = 54.23%
56125 Armor = 54.82%
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Kelerei » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:13 am

I'll post some data points from my Blood Knight this evening. ;)
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:31 am

Klaudandus wrote:DamageReduction = TargetArmor / (TargetArmor + 4037.5*AttackerLevel – 317117.5).


Putting in 57030 for TargetArmor, 90 for AttackerLevel gives 55,2148130...% damage reduction, so at least that expression appears to be correct.

Code: Select all
f(x) = 100*x/(x+K)


Could you remind me what f(x) and x are standing in for in this expression?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:37 am

Exactly what Klaud posted - x is the target's armor, K is the associated (and level-dependent) armor constant. And the formula he posted is exactly what I'm using. However, it's clear to me now what's going on: the character sheet is giving armor reduction against a level 90, whereas we care about armor reduction against a level 93. I was just too tired to realize that last night.

It would be awfully nice if the armor tooltip gave mitigation percentages against various levels of attacker, much like it does for hit/exp.
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