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Valor reward discussion

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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:08 pm

honestly, you can be hardcore and be a only partial clearing of normal guild
hardcore is about how you play, not your progression
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby Darielle » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:45 pm

Koatanga wrote:I actually don't think this is as much of an issue with hardcore raiders. Sure they min/max and squeeze every bit of performance out of their toons, but they are not the ones thinking "if only I can get that X piece of gear from the Shadow Pan, I could make up for the lack of DPS from <name of ungemmed, unenchanted, and generally sub-optimal raid member> and we could reach this enrage timer!"

As has been pointed out, hardcore raiders can farm gear from raids because they can clear norms in blues.

So it's just the responsible norm/casual raiders who feel like getting a piece of gear could make a difference and therefore feel the daily grind is non-optional.

Still, even if I was a leet raider, I might be annoyed that I can't spend the valour points I rightfully earned without doing the rep grind, considering that the points are non-transferable. It's not like you can grind the reps on your alt and use your otherwise unusable valour points from your un-repped main to gear up your repped alt.

Which, by the way, would be an OK way to handle the VP situation.


There's 2 aspects to this however

- It would be even more critical for a "hardcore" raider in the first few weeks becuase they ARE undergeared and they're going into Heroic modes. The ability to have had Shado-Pan trinkets at the end of week 2/3 when you've maybe had one/two chance(s) at your one raid trinket would have been pretty damn huge going into checks like Heroic Gara'jal. While they don't have to worry about people being ungemmed or unenchanted, they still have to squeeze dps.
- Raid enchants ARE gated by Rep. Having Dancing Steel, Jade Spirit is big.
- "Hardcore" raiders wind up in a position where they benefit hugely from maintaining multiple alts at as high as level as possible. Especially when Blizzard is happy to feed into situations where certain classes are hilariously good at trivialising mechanics that wind up being unbalanced otherwise. Unlike later tiers where you are at your worst case fully farmed from previous-tier-Heroic-BiS on your alts, this time you're not.
- Even Reps where you don't have a gear piece you can buy immediately award a 489 epic on hitting Exalted.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby halabar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:14 pm

The other point that I'll bring back here is that my real beef with the dailies is that they are in fact daily. I'd have MUCH less of an issue with it if I could log in on a Saturday and grind out 5 days worth in one shot. The daily part is what sucks.

As as for being a "responsible casual raider", it will be a lot easier with 5.1, when you can LFR/heroic your way to the valor cap in a day or two, and do enough dailies to keep yourself stocked in coins, and you're done.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:20 pm

are they removing the rep requirement on valor gear? :?
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:22 pm

Not likely, but you'll have had far more time to grind it out on your various characters to the point that ideally you'll only need to collect valor and whatever the newest rep is (assuming they're gating it behind new reps and not just replacing the current valor gear.)
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby jere » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:27 pm

And you can spend valor on non rep stuff: gear upgrades
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:40 pm

if you still need gear, you still need the rep, which isnt cahnging, it is just from revered to exalted that is going faster

the only addition is being able to upgrade your gear with valor
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby halabar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:35 pm

bldavis wrote:if you still need gear, you still need the rep, which isnt cahnging, it is just from revered to exalted that is going faster

the only addition is being able to upgrade your gear with valor


This.

And assuming by that point that you've either won some gear from LFR, Sha, BMAH, etc, doing the ilvl upgrades is a better way to spend your valor than on buying an epic that will have a better version drop in the raid next week.

Also, upgrade your best item first, as that will be the one least likely to be replaced soon.

I know you still want me to go buy all the valor gear, but I'm going to maximize the return on my time as best I can.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:58 pm

bldavis wrote:if you still need gear, you still need the rep, which isnt cahnging, it is just from revered to exalted that is going faster

the only addition is being able to upgrade your gear with valor

Yes, but by the time 5.1 drops, even if you've only been doing 1-2 factions worth of dailies every weekend, you'll be a lot closer to Revered (if not having hit Revered) so the rep part becomes far less of a burden.

If you've been avoiding all dailies like the plague, then yes, the only real option is the ilvl upgrade.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby halabar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:05 pm

Skye1013 wrote:
bldavis wrote:if you still need gear, you still need the rep, which isnt cahnging, it is just from revered to exalted that is going faster

the only addition is being able to upgrade your gear with valor

Yes, but by the time 5.1 drops, even if you've only been doing 1-2 factions worth of dailies every weekend, you'll be a lot closer to Revered (if not having hit Revered) so the rep part becomes far less of a burden.

If you've been avoiding all dailies like the plague, then yes, the only real option is the ilvl upgrade.


If I want to spend all my time in game when not in raid doing dailies, yeah...

But I have alts to tend for, AH to goblin, and sometimes I just feel like camping rares for drops while alt-tabbed to football....


Edit:

Also, with 5.1 in mind, I'm going to try to stay as close to valor capped as I can, and only buying rep gear if I'm about to go over. I don't want to hit 5.1 with 250 valor to my name. I'd much rather be able to upgrade my strongest pieces right away. I bought the valor next this past weekend, so I'm expecting 5.1 to drop before I hit 3000 again.
Last edited by halabar on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:11 pm

idgara what you do
i was just saying if someone is still needing gear, and wants to purchase it, then they still need to use rep to get them
i am all for upgrading your best slot first, but once they are fully upgraded, why not fill in low slots?

and im sorry but this is YOU
that isnt the same for everyone
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:14 pm

Alts are included in both of my statements (since a lot of people avoid the dailies on their alts or complete them at a much less routine rate.)

Also, just because I may have described part of your playstyle, doesn't mean I'm referring only to you. You said yourself the only time you really do dailies is on the weekends. Once 5.1 comes around, you'll be considerably closer to Revered. Given that most people aren't going to change that playstyle to suddenly include more and more dailies, unless you're completely avoiding them, Revered will eventually happen. At that point it's no longer a factor and the VP attained through any method becomes viable to spend on Valor gear.

The only way that falls apart is if they introduce new faction reps (with the same bottleneck of dailies) for the new Valor gear.

Edit: Holy long sentences, Batman.
Last edited by Skye1013 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby halabar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:15 pm

bldavis wrote:idgara what you do
i was just saying if someone is still needing gear, and wants to purchase it, then they still need to use rep to get them
i am all for upgrading your best slot first, but once they are fully upgraded, why not fill in low slots?


Hopefully you've had some success in raid or LFR by that point, and have other gear that can be ilvl upgraded.

At least for my spriest, a lot of the valor gear is poorly itemized anyway, so upgrading a 476 or 483 from LFR is better than buying a poorly itemized rep valor purchase.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:22 pm

which is fine, if you get the drops
what if you are like klaud and nika in previous tiers and teh bosses horde all of a slot and laugh at you?
that is when a valor piece is prob a good idea
plus if you have everything else upgraded already

if you havent guessed, i am stating several weeks/months down the road, not the week it comes out
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Valor reward discussion

Postby halabar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:25 pm

Skye1013 wrote:Alts are included in both of my statements (since a lot of people avoid the dailies on their alts or complete them at a much less routine rate.)

Also, just because I may have described part of your playstyle, doesn't mean I'm referring only to you. You said yourself the only time you really do dailies is on the weekends. Once 5.1 comes around, you'll be considerably closer to Revered. Given that most people aren't going to change that playstyle to suddenly include more and more dailies, unless you're completely avoiding them, Revered will eventually happen, at which point it's no longer a factor and the VP attained through any method becomes viable to spend on Valor gear.

The only way that falls apart is if they introduce new faction reps (with the same bottleneck of dailies) for the new Valor gear.


Well, they are introducing 1 new rep per faction... :-)

And my guess is that 5.1 is going to drop the week after T-Day, considering the last build was marked release candidate.

For the alts the rep boost in 5.1 will help, but I'll really only going to do enough dailies to keep them in bonus rolls. Otherwise LFR is good enough to gear them. Alts is alts.

My spriest is revered with GL and Klaxx, and eventually I'll get SP for the mount. But I have no professions that otherwise need any of the factions, so it would just be for vanity.
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