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Protection DPS

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Protection DPS

Postby OAMM » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:19 pm

I won't have time to raid beyond LFR for a while, so I've been entertaining myself by gearing for maximum prot dps to blaze through dailies, 5 mans, and climb meters in LFR. I've used every aside comment and throwaway scrap of information regarding incidental dps increases in Theck's math and EJ's posts to theorycraft gearsets and strategies to push my tank to the limits. However, I believe some aspects of my research has fallen through the cracks because not many people discuss things that are obviously not in a progression tank's best interests. For instance how weapon enchants rank, or evaluating items with crit on them etc. I think this topic might be of interest to real raiders as well though since it is nice to know the potential of the class and what options are available once survivability is no longer a primary concern, who knows when another nine month span of tier farming will occur.

With this in mind, what are some of the non-obvious or subtle changes that can be done to increase dps?

I'll answer first with some of my, likely flawed*, research and conclusions. I’ll list some of my ideas that didn’t seem to work as well, since things could change in the future or someone may be able to correct me.
*I would like to note that MOP is my first expansion playing a paladin, a tank, or a melee character after playing a warlock as a progression raider and amateur theorycrafter since Vanilla. I like to think I have some experience coming up with ways to increase dps, but I'm absolutely sure I'm missing bits and pieces that will be obvious to any seasoned tank or paladin or calculator.

Stats.
I would use simcraft which I am more than comfortable with from my warlock days, but it is not currently compatible with prot paladins at any level. I’d like to figure out MATLAB, but at the moment I haven’t given it any time. Without these tools I’ve relied on Theck’s own weights as the basis for my findings.

Strength is devalued in relation to secondary stats because of vengeance. This makes some interesting choices and opportunities that a normal prot or ret paladin would not have to consider. My stat weights reflect this but also consider survivability stats slightly since some gear, such as shields, will have them. As a general rule I value survivability at 10% of dps stats when sorting for gear. This will push some lower dps items above higher dps items if they are close, but I tend to evaluate this on a case by case basis. I have nudged strength slightly to account for its defensive component and reduced stamina artificially to a point just above mastery.

These values are normalized to strength as 1.0, and are taken from Theck's MATLAB results and comments about AskMrRobot weights. Vengeance is assumed 75k and as stated above, pure survivability stats are worth 10% of his values. These values are hard to determine, but make the difference in some of the following conclusions, errors or variance in opinion will change some strategies.

  • hit 1.74
  • exp 1.43/~0.7
  • haste 1.08
  • str 1.00
  • crit 0.63
  • stam 0.18
  • mas 0.17
  • armor 0.12
  • dod 0.05
  • par 0.05

Gearing strategy.
I aim for gear that only has Haste, Hit, Exp, Crit. This is sometimes hard to find since there will be weak prot gear and weak ret gear that doesn’t fit this criteria. Mastery also increases dps by increasing block chance which increases Alabaster Shield uptime. I haven’t considered any calculations about its value since I assume it is pretty low, though I am assuming this glyph is being used instead of a WoG+Harsh Words combination.

Flasks vs Elixirs.
  • Flask:
    1000*1.0 = 1000
    strength*weight
  • Elixir (No armor weight):
    (750*1.08)+ (2250*0) = 810
    haste*weight+armor*weight
  • Elixirs:
    (750*1.08) + (2250*0.12) = 1080
    haste*weight+armor*weight
Elixir’s win if considering the addition of armor. Flask wins if considering pure dps.

Food.
  • Strength:
    300*1 = 300
    strength*weight
  • Expertise:
    300*1.08 = 324
    exp reforged into haste * weight
If you can plan your cap around the expertise from food and reforge to haste then it will come out ahead. However with this gear set and a goal of only 7.5% exp, you might have too much exp already.

Meta Gem.
  • Strength+Crit:
    (216*1) + () = 216
    strength*weight+crit damage
  • Crit+Spell Reflect:
    (432*0.63) + () = 272
    crit*weight+reflect
This is where my class and math knowledge fails me. I’m not sure how this meta gem’s increased crit damage is currently calculated. My lengthy, full page, and error filled attempt to solve this put the Strength+Crit gem ahead of Crit+Spell by a small amount though. The spell reflect could potentially push it over on a lucky reflect, but at 1% proc chance I’ve only seen it go off about once every couple hours of playing.

Shield Enchant.
  • Parry:
    170*0.05 = 9
    parry*weight
  • Mastery:
    50*0.17 = 9
    mastery*weight
  • Stamina
    18*0.18 = 3
    stamina*weight
  • Shield spike:
    800/5 = 160dps
    avg damage / cooldown
    50% chance to do 600 to 1000 damage on a block, 5 second cd.
No good options here, but the spike looks to be the most valuable. This is the max the spike can do I believe, and would need an aoe situation to get that many procs, especially with low mastery and block levels. Meter shows it doing 5-10k total damage at the end of most fights. Remember I didn’t make a dps weight for mastery, so it could go ahead a tiny bit more than shown here. A side note is that for a normal defense minded tank, the stamina option isn’t too bad with Theck’s AskMrRobot weights.

Weapon Enchant.
  • Windsong (No mastery weight):
    ((((1500*12*0.0)+
    mas*seconds*weight
    (1500*12*0.63)+
    crit*seconds*weight
    (1500*12*1.08))/3)*2)/60 = 342
    haste*seconds*weight)averaged)*2RPPM
  • Windsong:
    ((((1500*12*0.17)+
    mas*seconds*weight
    (1500*12*0.63)+
    crit*seconds*weight
    (1500*12*1.08))/3)*2)/60 = 376
    haste*seconds*weight)averaged)*2RPPM
  • Dancing Steel:
    ((1650*12*1.0)*2)/60 = 660
    strength*seconds*weight)*2RPPM
  • Weapon Chain:
    200*1.08 = 216
    haste*weight
    Assuming reforging exp cap around this.

  • Elemental Force:
    ((2775+3225)/2)*10)/60 = 500dps
    average damage)*10RPPM
Please don’t laugh too hard at this math. Note that these values are weights but Elemental force is calculated as dps value. If strength is worth about 1.4 dps per point we can determine that they do 479 (WS-0mas), 562 (WS), 924 (DS), 302 (WC) in value, but again this isn't comparing them quite equally, however Dancing Steel is clearly in the lead, but the best budget option is a little harder to determine. It should also be noted that Elemental Force won't scale with multiple targets or gear as far as I know.

Bracer Enchant.
  • Haste:
    65*1.08 = 70
    haste*weight
  • Strength:
    170*1.0 = 170
    strength*weight
  • Mastery:
    170*0.17 = 29
    mas*weight
  • Expertise:
    50*1.08 = 54
    haste*weight
    Assuming reforging exp cap around this.

  • Hit:
    50*1.08 = 54
    haste*weight
    Assuming reforging hit cap around this.
Use strength. If you are poor use the old haste.

Seals.
  • Seal of Truth: Use for single targets.
  • Seal of Righteousness: Use at more than three targets.
I'm not entirely sure this is accurate. I'm also curious about any priority changes with a large amount of targets.
Last edited by OAMM on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:03 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

Couple of things about your post:
- You have a stat weight for mastery on shield enchants at 0.17, but for bracers it's 0. (Using the shield stat weight, you should come out to 28.9, so still lower, but not 0 :D)
- Why are survival stats at 10% dps? Are you saying stam/dodge/parry/armor allow you the opportunity to take more damage, which gives you more vengeance?
- Also, for Elemental Force, does it have a chance to proc per target with HotR?

Something you didn't mention that may or may not affect your dps, professions:
- LW currently has an additional 10 stat bonus over most other profs
- JC/BS allow for hit/exp/haste options over pure str
- Eng has goggles with Tinker slots that allow for hit/exp/haste options (which might be better than having to hunt for a good head piece. This also assumes you've replaced the Dragonling for another trinket.) Additionally, most (if not all) of the eng "enchants" stack with normal enchants for the slots (gloves/belt giving dps options)

Might be other perks to look into, but that's what I can think of offhand.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby OAMM » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:53 pm

Skye1013 wrote:Couple of things about your post:
- You have a stat weight for mastery on shield enchants at 0.17, but for bracers it's 0. (Using the shield stat weight, you should come out to 28.9, so still lower, but not 0 :D)

I was meaning to do both 10% value and pure dps value for options that contain survival stats in conjunction with dps stats, but I mixed that one up. I do like to list options that don't work or that give no value though just to show that it has been considered, but really I'm probably just being overly redundant and somewhat confusing.

Skye1013 wrote:- Why are survival stats at 10% dps? Are you saying stam/dodge/parry/armor allow you the opportunity to take more damage, which gives you more vengeance?

10% value is almost arbitrary, but it is just a point I set as a comparison for gear that has those stats on it. In the case of an item with hit+mastery vs one with hit+parry I can make a choice easily on Wowhead or AskMrRobot item ranking. I'll eventually come up with a better way to let those count for something without getting in the way of pure dps since I do see problems with it.

My understanding of Vengeance is that it increases based on the amount of damage aimed at you, not the amount you take. So these defensive stats don't matter in that regard. Something like ignoring Weakened Blows does help though.

Skye1013 wrote:- Also, for Elemental Force, does it have a chance to proc per target with HotR?

I'd did calculations based on the new Real Proc Per Minute formula coming in 5.1 for all new enchants. I assume that it has a chance to proc on all HotR hits, but I don't think it matters as much now. I might be misunderstanding how the enchant system works though.

Skye1013 wrote:Something you didn't mention that may or may not affect your dps, professions:
- LW currently has an additional 10 stat bonus over most other profs
- JC/BS allow for hit/exp/haste options over pure str
- Eng has goggles with Tinker slots that allow for hit/exp/haste options (which might be better than having to hunt for a good head piece. This also assumes you've replaced the Dragonling for another trinket.) Additionally, most (if not all) of the eng "enchants" stack with normal enchants for the slots (gloves/belt giving dps options)

Might be other perks to look into, but that's what I can think of offhand.

I'm currently Engineering and Blacksmithing, which is pretty good for this gear level since I can use the helm. If there is any interest in this being a more complete guide I may add a comparison for all professions.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby tlitp » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:31 am

OAMM wrote:These values are normalized to strength as 1.0, and are taken from Theck's MATLAB results and comments about AskMrRobot weights. Vengeance is assumed 75k (...)
{list of values}

The absolute worth of a given secondary stat as f(VengeanceAP) is nonlinear; e.g. doubling VengeanceAP will not necessarily double the absolute worth of the normalized unit of haste rating, ceteris paribus. You can't use the values presented by Theck, at 50k/100k AP, as inputs for a lerp().

Furthermore, the relevance of Theck's values themselves is intrinsically limited by the choice of the set of inputs. He simply didn't have parse-hunting in mind : mastery prioritized over haste, survivability-oriented gemming/enchanting/reforging, no crit meta, ^WB at the top of the priority queue etc.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby jere » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:14 am

I've been doing everything as prot most of the time, so here are some of my observations:

1. SoT vs SoI: SoT is obviously more DPS but having used the now current nerfed SoT for a while and then SoI, I didn't have any noticeable difference in kill time on adds (assuming groups of adds). Pre nerf Sot definitely felt faster, but post nerf, the "feel" about the same even if one is mathematically superior.

2. Light's Hammer. Again, ES is much better dps for single target, but doing dailies/quests/scenarios really seems to favor Light's Hammer since you will be targeting groups of adds instead of single.

3. You didn't mention that I saw, so just incase: cooldowns - don't neglect those. You can pull a lot more adds if you work out a good "cooldown" rotation per pull. This translates into higher vengeance. Also make sure to figure out a good time to pop Avenging Wrath. I tend to pair it up with Holy Avenger and Light's Hammer for one of my big pulls. The only cooldown I don't work into a rotation is Lay on Hands, as I keep that around incase I mess up and can't handle the pull.

4. I find Speed of Light to be really good for dailies. It is typically coming off cooldown right before the next pull so it really makes grabbing the next group easy if you don't want to wait for the cast on your mount. It's also good for rounding up adds that pause to send a ranged attack before running towards you. You grab a few adds, HotR them, pop speed of light, go hit 2 or 3 more and get back to the original group before they finish their cast. It's not the only option, but just something fun. If you are in Dread Wastes though, I find the Speed King augment to be more fun for that.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby OAMM » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:33 pm

tlitp wrote:
OAMM wrote:These values are normalized to strength as 1.0, and are taken from Theck's MATLAB results and comments about AskMrRobot weights. Vengeance is assumed 75k (...)
{list of values}

The absolute worth of a given secondary stat as f(VengeanceAP) is nonlinear; e.g. doubling VengeanceAP will not necessarily double the absolute worth of the normalized unit of haste rating, ceteris paribus. You can't use the values presented by Theck, at 50k/100k AP, as inputs for a lerp().

No weight seems to be doubled from its value at 50k to its value at 100k, it looks to be about a 60% increase when comparing the two. It would be clearer to say that I've used the average of the 50k and 100k weights instead of saying 75k, which isn't a good method for accuracy since that point might not exist but instead assumes we are gearing for an equal mix of purely high or purely low Vengeance encounters, which I think works well enough considering it is the best starting place I have for collecting weights and want to use a value in the middle of those Vengeance levels.

tlitp wrote:Furthermore, the relevance of Theck's values themselves is intrinsically limited by the choice of the set of inputs. He simply didn't have parse-hunting in mind : mastery prioritized over haste, survivability-oriented gemming/enchanting/reforging, no crit meta, ^WB at the top of the priority queue etc.

I agree, I'd be very interested in the results of a dps gear and priority run. Aside from the crit meta, I believe his current set up should be compatible with those few tweaks. I'll try to find a chance to look into it.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby Nooska » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:17 am

Why 7.5% Expertise? as has been pointed out several places Expertise is equally valuable from 4-5% as from 8-9%.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby daishan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:54 am

Nooska wrote:Why 7.5% Expertise? as has been pointed out several places Expertise is equally valuable from 4-5% as from 8-9%.

As a survival stat yes, but unless i'm very wrong once at spell hit cap (7.5% hit + 7.5% exp) haste pulls ahead of exp as a dps stat.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby OAMM » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:48 am

Expertise from 7.5%-15% is a little above crit so depending on how your gear's base hit and exp is stacked it might still be best to reforge a haste/crit or haste/hit item into haste/->exp and leave haste/exp items alone and end up a little ways above 7.5%
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:40 pm

I think there's one weak point in all of this - your assumption of 75k Vengeance is optimistic at best. In 10- and 25-man raids, 50-100k is perfectly a reasonable estimate. I don't think that's true for LFR though - I'd be surprised if you can manage to maintain 20-30k consistently in LFR. And solo play is far worse - you're likely to have less than 1k-2k Vengeance while questing or doing dailies.

That's going to skew a lot of the weights around. Hit/exp/haste all scale very well with Vengeance, which means at very low vengeance they suffer. To get realistic stat weights, we'd want to run the simulation with a hit/exp/haste/crit optimized gear set, the crit meta gem (str/crit should be a better choice, as not all encounters have spell mechanics to reflect), and 0-20k Vengeance. If you throw together a sample gear/echant set, I can toss it into MATLAB and see what it looks like.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby jere » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:03 pm

For solo targets, I typically see 2-3k vengeance on the VengeanceStatus addon. For groups (say 5-8 mobs), it varies based on the type of mobs, but typically ranges between 15k-33k for me (though decreases slowly if certain mobs die before others). When I pull really large groups it spikes much higher, but never really steady states for me to give a good feel.
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Re: Protection DPS

Postby OAMM » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:18 pm

That is a flaw for how I actually play, but I'm not sure for what level I'd want to generate weights to base gear around. The peak is about 75k for huge pulls and for Elegon at least and that is what I had in mind, but it is pretty far from a typical situation. The low end for a single 5man boss is about 10k, but most multipack pulls are probably around 30k. Another thing to consider is that typically the highest vengeance periods are during aoe so the priorities may change and also have an effect on weights.

This is the output from AskMrRobot's BIS builder set with my weights and some manual tweaking. BS/Engr professions and gear taken from everything that isn't normal or heroic raiding or elite pvp. This doesn't select the best in slot from each slot, but rather its version of the best full set. Let me know if these gear set formats aren't what you are looking for, I can use chardev or total up buffed/unbuffed stat totals manually.
Code: Select all
shoulders=white_tiger_pauldrons,id=86679,stats=3963armor_457haste_537hit_1208sta_725str,gems=160haste_160hit_60str,enchant=200str_100crit,reforge=hit_exp
wrists=braided_black_and_white_bracer,id=88879,stats=2359armor_444crit_394exp_958sta_638str,gems=320haste,enchant=170str,reforge=crit_haste
main_hand=kilrak_jaws_of_terror,id=86906,stats=314hit_302mastery_697sta_464str,gems=500str,enchant=dancing_steel,reforge=hit_haste,weapon=sword_2.6speed_5343min_9924max
head=voice_amplyifying_greathelm,id=89280,stats=4380armor_741crit_494exp_1719sta_906str,gems=impassive_primal_160haste_160hit_180crit,reforge=crit_haste
neck=malevolent_gladiators_choker_of_accuracy,id=84892,stats=353haste_432hit_906sta_604str,reforge=hit_exp
chest=malevolent_gladiators_scaled_chestpiece,id=84794,stats=5284armor_563crit_723haste_1626sta_924str,gems=320haste_320haste,enchant=80all,reforge=crit_exp
waist=warbelt_of_sealed_pods,id=89954,stats=2972armor_378crit_503exp_1208sta_645str,gems=320haste_160haste_160hit_320haste_120exp,reforge=exp_haste
legs=malevolent_gladiators_scaled_legguards,id=84870,stats=4623armor_723crit_563haste_1626sta_924str,gems=320haste_320haste,enchant=285str_165crit,reforge=crit_exp
feet=impaling_treads,id=86852,stats=3633armor_528haste_439hit_1208sta_725str,gems=320haste_60hit,enchant=175hit,reforge=hit_exp
hands=bloodforged_warfists,id=87407,stats=3448armor_526crit_606hit_1363sta_829str,gems=320haste_320haste_60str,enchant=170haste,reforge=hit_haste,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
finger1=seal_of_the_bloodseeker,id=90862,stats=485exp_323haste_958sta_638str
finger2=ring_of_the_bladed_tempest,id=86820,stats=315exp_454haste_906sta_604str
trinket1=darkmist_vortex,id=86894,stats=1021str
trinket2=lei_shins_final_orders,id=86802,stats=956haste
back=hiseks_chrysanthemum_cape,id=86812,stats=1092armor_420haste_373hit_906sta_604str,enchant=180crit,reforge=hit_exp
off_hand=impervious_carapace,id=81233,stats=15800armor_254hit_501parry_752sta_381str,enchant=170parry,reforge=parry_haste


I don't exactly know what AMR includes in their totaling summary.
Code: Select all
Stat |         From Gear |  Total   
Strength:     12987,    13823
Stamina:    16571,    24168
Mastery:    302,    13.50%
Spell Hit:    2593,    18.43%
Physical Hit:    2593,    7.63%
MH Expertise:    3334,    10.81%
Physical Crit:    3445,    12.74%
Melee Haste:    9868,    35.54%
Armor:        47554,    52309
Parry:        471,    14.39%
Dodge:        0,    0.51%
Proc (Str):    1175,    1175
Proc (Haste):    1251,    2.94%
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