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Well, that was easy! When does T-6 get harder than Vashj/KT?

Winterchill, Anetheron, Kaz'rogal, Azgalor, Archimonde

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Well, that was easy! When does T-6 get harder than Vashj/KT?

Postby knaughty » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:55 pm

So... we just made it to tier six, and while reading the strats is interesting, they don't give you a good feel for how hard things actually are.

We've done one night in Mt. Hyjal, Winterchill was "OK... that was a boss?" He felt about as hard as Void Reaver.

We did get stuck this week trying to get past Anatheron with only five healers keyed, 22 in raid and zero SR gear, but with a full raid he looks like a total pushover. I mean.. five healers and we had him at 50% before people fall over en-masse as various healers went OOM. BT key neck and the crafted SR cloak on the healers and a few others feels like it will help as well.

When does Mount Hyjal actually become as hard as Vashj/Kael?

Same question for Black Temple?
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Postby Worldie » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:13 pm

Basically first 3 bosses in MH are a joke, it's waves that are supposed to be hard (well, Azgalor waves aint funny, believe me). Winterchill is free loots, Anatheron is quite easy, Kazrogal is just pewpewdps.
First 3 bosses in BT are also kinda free loots. Najentus is not rly hard if your healers dont suck, Supremus is a joke and even more jokish with a tankadin, Akama is free loots as well. The first real challenges are Gorefiend (DPS and tard check), Bloodboil (Tanking and Healing check) and RoS (Coordination and DPS check)

Those 6 bosses are most likely the reward for having beaten Kael and Vashj, not really anything challenging.
Oh and believe me, without a paladin tank, those trashs are a huge pain in the ass :)


Oh and don't use SR on Anatheron, just bring 7 healers, 8 if you don't want to risk.
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Postby knaughty » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:38 pm

Trash waves look like they would be a major freaking pain without a tankadin.

With tankadin = "grats for tuning up", wait 20 mins then boss inc.

Anatheron trash I accidentally tanked first couple of waves in healing gear.... until the Aboms came and smashed me in the face. We sorta recovered, but had to wipe and reset because we got behind the curve due to me dead = mages squished and one of our five healers had fallen over. Easier just to start over. It was a laughably off-night for me actually...

• Tanking in healing gear incident = wipe.

• "Shit, why has holy shield stopped working mid-wave?" Oh dear... my shield wore out... Equip spell damage shield, finish wave. Drop bot, repair, announce: "Hey guys, I dropped a bot in case anyone needs one before the boss, it's under the Abom corpses somewhere..."

• Announced "Switched to healing gear for boss" = panicked exclamations from virgin raid leader "This is Anatheron, FR GEAR!! FR GEAR!!!" Got it on in time...

The trash waves wearing out my shield is kind of annoying, actually.

I blame the fact I was also baby-sitting and thus very distracted. Wouldn't have been there at all, but reserve tankadin isn't keyed yet.
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Postby knaughty » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:39 pm

Holy multi-post - thanks admin....
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Postby Jensaarai » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:32 pm

Really, I thought Azgalor's trash was the easiest of the instance, compared to say Kaz'rogal's it was a friggin' joke. I was happy, it was a lot more relaxing than others. We went in and 5-shot Azgalor tonight on our first night of attempts...I'd say Hyjal in general is cake. Now Archimonde, though...:P that I can see being tough.

Naj'entus, Supremus, Akama were easy, yes...Gorefiend took two nights, once you get a good string of people who know what to do with the constructs you'll down him...we'll see how Bloodboil/RoS are :)
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Postby Splug » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:33 pm

Kael'thas is the most technical fight in the game, by a fairly wide margin.

There are no huge bottleneck fights like Vashj/Kael in BT or Hyjal, just a ton of bosses. Most guilds have a new boss down every week, until you're trying to manage 5 bosses in Hyjal and 6+ in BT with a <6 night a week schedule - then you start running out of time to work on new content, and you start hitting 2-3 weeks per boss just to get one night or a night and a half each week.

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Postby Maranus » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:45 pm

we got to 5/5 MH and 4/9 BT in only 2 or 3 weeks... only raiding 12 hours a week... we're going to have to start dropping MH to progress, unless we can get tighter in there.
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Postby fiorina » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:12 pm

Kael is "hard" because many people have to learn what to do. Illidan is comparable hard, but just to 3 tanks
Other than that, TBC content is quite easy compared with later Naxx for example. Pre-nerf mother was pretty hard, she reminded me a Viscidus or Thadius with laggy servers.
If you've killed pre-nerf Kael, it's just question of time when you down Illidan, there is no "harder" fight from learning curve point of view further in MH/BT.
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Postby Lore » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:22 pm

fiorina wrote:Kael is "hard" because many people have to learn what to do. Illidan is comparable hard, but just to 3 tanks
Other than that, TBC content is quite easy compared with later Naxx for example. Pre-nerf mother was pretty hard, she reminded me a Viscidus or Thadius with laggy servers.
If you've killed pre-nerf Kael, it's just question of time when you down Illidan, there is no "harder" fight from learning curve point of view further in MH/BT.


Yep.

I haven't killed Kael post-nerf, so I don't know how much different it is now, but pre-nerf Kael was the hardest fight in the game =\
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Postby Worldie » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:10 am

We killed kael prenerf. Post nerf we killed him a couple of times but our GM (rogue) wasnt here.

We had to kill him again recently for attunements and the GM was with us. The first comment came when Sanguinar was dead after roughly 30 seconds and was something like "already down?"

The comment at the end was "yes this fight is SO nerfed".

To give a idea, with no real big improvement in gear, we passed from:
- P3 starting with usually Axe on 80-90% and rest down some seconds before the timer, with shield dying basically couple of seconds before advisor's ress
- P4 with Sanguinar and Capernian alive
to
- P3 with all weapons down 30 seconds before the timer and axe at 20% at the start of the phase
- P4 with just Capernian at 50%
The nerf to P2 and P3 is very noticeable actually.
Last edited by Worldie on Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby knaughty » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:10 am

Lore wrote:
fiorina wrote:Kael is "hard" because many people have to learn what to do. Illidan is comparable hard, but just to 3 tanks
Other than that, TBC content is quite easy compared with later Naxx for example. Pre-nerf mother was pretty hard, she reminded me a Viscidus or Thadius with laggy servers.
If you've killed pre-nerf Kael, it's just question of time when you down Illidan, there is no "harder" fight from learning curve point of view further in MH/BT.


Yep.

I haven't killed Kael post-nerf, so I don't know how much different it is now, but pre-nerf Kael was the hardest fight in the game =\


Moderate, I think.

I started WoW a year or so late, only did first half of AQ-40 and 1 boss in Naxx.

KT is substantially harder than anything in BWL or AQ-40 as far as Emps, even post nerf.

But with sufficiently stacked AE (7 mage/locks) and skilful single target DPS keeping the weapons even, we were getting Weapons down with 20 seconds to spare, downing 3/4 advisors in P3 with just Capernian left, who's easily killed prior to first shield. If we were going to do KT more than 3-4 times, I think we'd start P4 with all advisors dead.

I hate to think what the fight must have been like with weapons still up @ P3 and two advisors @ P4 start.

Shield is relatively easy to blast down as well.
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Postby Splug » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:14 am

Eh, most of the nerfing in the Kael encounter was to advisor health in p1, just to make it faster (doesn't really make the fight much easier since p1 was mostly an introduction to the mechanics anyway). Their p3 health is maybe 10-15% lower, making the fight significantly easier (no shields with Capernian up), but the damage was not reduced. It's just much easier to about finish each phase before the next one.

Also, equipment upgrades tend to be a bit skewed here. While your armor can definitely make a major impact on the encounter, from P2 on you're looking at the same weapons whether you've been farming BT for months or just came out of Karazhan.

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Postby knaughty » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:06 pm

Failed second KT kill, took too many new people and couldn't beat the DPS races in P2/3, and got to see what "pre-nerf" was like.

We managed 9 extra vials at our last Vashj kill... tried for 12 at our 2nd KT kill - over-ambitious.

Even post-nerf, you can't afford to take 2-3 under-geared DPS. Note... "under-geared" is still well over 1,000 +DMG, and our raid-makeup was spot on. But you really need to be at "there are no upgrades in T-5 other than Vashj/KT" - 3/5 T-5 plus trimmings.
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Postby Dawnrunner » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:21 am

This is just kind of random along the veins of this post. But any other Protadins appreciate the system of 'thanks for clearing all those waves for us, now go outside while we kill the one boss you actually could use an item from'?
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Postby sahiel » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:33 am

Never had that happen with my guild, we don't sit people for a boss unless they have no need of gear and volunteer to drop so someone who needs something can come in. If a guild was saying 'thanks for clearing trash, now drop' to me repeatedly, I would drop... the guild that is, and find another one that actually weren't assholes.
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