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Tanking Prince:

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Wakeman » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:23 pm

2ndNin wrote:Spell damage I feel is necessary, in long fights locks and that will hit 80% of my threat (stuff like prince, overhealing doesn't give mana back), as I will go oom and be relying on spiritual or wisdom. With the level I have (and a flask) I will never get caught, and given a proper set of healing they won't hit 50% of my threat (useful for stuff like vr which reduces threat). Ok its high but is there anyway to keep it high and stamina up or is it definetly a trade there?

Our mages and that are better geared than me, and I dislike making them threat limited even in fights like vr :D



Sometimes threat generation is more important. Sometimes keeping yourself alive is more important. That's why most experienced tanks bring at least two set of gear with them: one set with high mitigation & stam for difficult fight, the other set with high threat for trash or when you are outgeared too much.

I play a hunter sometimes. I know dpsers like tanks that can hold firm aggro so that they can put out as much damage as they can. However, they like it more if the tanks are safe and help them to one shot every bosses. Buy a larger bag to hold the gear for replacement and download addons like wardrobe, then you can both be safe and keep high threat! :D



[edit] About the lock, I believe you will see him having his threat near 80% all the times no matter how much threat you do, if he knows his class. He was probably watching the threat meter closely and used a warlock threat reduction skill whenever the threat is around 80%. However, this skill costs some of his life. Actually, with the exception of hunters, the threat reduction skills of all other dps classes are either limited or at a cost. Therefore, I always believe Salv is the best blessing for dpsers except hunters, unless the tanks' gear is outgearing them by the grade of one tier level. Anyway, I know it is not easy to convince dpsers to give up the tiny dps benefit from Kings, Might or Wisdom sometimes for the possible 10-30% gain in dps with Salv.
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Postby 2ndNin » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:31 am

Him hitting 80% was with no threat reduction (no soul shatter and no salvation) from me at least, a full out smashing of the prince. I try not to force the dps to use those as some classes can't do it, so it becomes those that really have problems rather than your normal high threat classes :D But that was with me going oom as for the most part (barring me getting smashed in < 1s) the prince isn't doing enough damage to keep my mana healthy :(

So basically you suggest dropping spell damage for more avoidance, or block? (and possibly associated health gains - though it is really hard to alter and stay uncrushable as I am barely 5% over it with my normal loadout, not even enough to drop my libram :( )
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Postby Wakeman » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:56 pm

2ndNin wrote:Him hitting 80% was with no threat reduction (no soul shatter and no salvation) from me at least, a full out smashing of the prince. I try not to force the dps to use those as some classes can't do it, so it becomes those that really have problems rather than your normal high threat classes :D


Well, every groups have their own playing style. Your group enjoy everyone going all out without the need of watching the threat. My group enjoy one-shotting Prince when I tank. It is up to you guys to decide. I can't comment on that.

But that was with me going oom as for the most part (barring me getting smashed in < 1s) the prince isn't doing enough damage to keep my mana healthy :(


To be honest, Prince damage on phrase one is pathetic. Any tank in greens and blues can tank it. There are ways that we can gain mana in such situation. Well, you better go search it out yourself.

So basically you suggest dropping spell damage for more avoidance, or block? (and possibly associated health gains - though it is really hard to alter and stay uncrushable as I am barely 5% over it with my normal loadout, not even enough to drop my libram :( )


This is the reason why tankadins gear mechanic is one of the most complicated among all the classes.

Anyway, I thought you asked for advice about strategy and gear on your first posts. Others had answered the part about strategy, so I thought it would be good for me to give you some gear advice. Nevertheless, it looks like it is not what you want, so I guess I'd better stop here. You can always go check the sticky in the gear section. What I said was mostly coming from there.
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Postby Eroslight » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:21 pm

I'd personally say what went wrong was you not salving the DPS - Cause the reason why you didn't spam the holy shield button like you were on crack (save for some lag) was cause you were concerned about DPS generating too much aggro.

I'm currently MTing for my guild and i've down prince now about 9 or 10 times and gotten the first two bosses in ZA with less umm everything than what you have. I'd seriously consider killing somebody for your kind of gear.

Too much spell damage IMO though - i was running with ~210 unbuffed with the lowest DPS doing 659 DPS (top was about 1k ((Seedin Lock bastard))) and never once did they pull aggro - which brings me back to SALVATION. You can get the Amani Punisher from the Eagle boss (you can tank him just fine - bring three healers and 6 DPS (with an OT) that understand sounds and you'll be amazed how easy he is.) and your Spell damage will skyrocket (so will your threat but it will be at that stage in the game is when you will need the threat - not before).

Yeah your Gems - just replace em all with +12 Stam - who CARES about resilence?

Throw +def on bracers, Get the ring from Shade (the +def one), I used that as my source of +def, and swap out trinkets as needed for fight.

I guess you could try and get Nightbane or Gruuls Shield - all the damage will be goign through it and it was the first thing I wanted to upgrade (thank god we dont' use DKP).

Other than that - yeah your gear makes my gear get picked last in dodgeball during recess.....

As for the reg hits while you were supposed to be uncrushable - except for the lag times between holy shield refreshs (which in 7 prince kills i've gotten 4 crushing blows and 0 normal hits total) - everything should be going through your shield - so I'd say watch your positioning - he can shift oddly at times ESPECIALLY with your back to the wall he can get out of your block arc making you unable to block (aka dead pally). That and spam Holy shield - ensure your rotation isn't going ot make HS a split second late - just skip a step if its going to be close).

Hope this helps - let us know how it goes!
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Postby 2ndNin » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:45 am

Wakerman, uncrushability isn't the issue (never been crushed by prince bar when I forgot one time - strangely successful - to put up my holy shield in phase 3, I did get more mana back then though :D), phase 1 / 3 his damage is consistent and smooth with the healers keeping me up fine. Phase 2 I remain uncrushable (no, am not stupid enough to drop my shield for more threat, and tbh I don't need more threat as I can easily out threat the dps), however I do think the idea of stop attacking makes sense (5 attacks in < 1s smacks of me parrying or something).

I am not quite sure how you mean though about 1 shotting it, since threat gen of the dps wasn't an issue I went with wisdom rather than salvation to try and keep mana up (as I off heal this fight half the time I know that I at least go oom). Now I do believe I need more stamina (or possibly more armour?) however I wasn't really sure if that was a trade off worth making, however you suggest it is so I will try it out. Giving salvation when the dps should never be able to out threat me seems like a wasted buff if I am tanking, if the warriors are tanking I throw it out liberally, but again this is probably due to the heavy spell damage build I have. Our heaviest mage has actually said that when I tank he doesn't bother to watch the threatmeter anymore as he knows he can't pull unless he starts smashing one of my off targets, so maybe I am relying too heavily on huge threat.

Ero, our lowest dps hits about 800, with the top clearing 1.2K depending on the group I am running with so with a lucky crit string (think half the casters and all the hunters are hitting about 30%+ crit) their threat can skyrocket :(, but normally yeah I probably have too much spell damage for most occasions:D

I have the shade's ring, however it seems like that and the delicate eternium are a trade off (slightly more avoidance vs 300 hits + small amount of armour), not really sure if avoidance or hits are better (and the elitist jerks thread makes it even more confusing as the survival graphs favour avoidance until you can pass the next integer hits from the boss (so 1/2/3/4 hits from gruul for example).

Tried getting nightbane's shield, he just won't drop it no matter what I do... he is starting to annoy me :(, and gruul I am the last on the dkp list in terms of the tanks so will be 3 shields ahead of me before I can get one :(. Basically anything in kara though that drops I can pick up (or zul'aman's lynx, eagle or bear bosses since we started clearing those, the amount of off healing gear I have is silly (+1560 healing in my gear, and its not fully enchanted :D)

The resiliance gem I think is in there because I had one spare and wanted the socket bonus (can't remember which slot thats actually in :D) as I am picking up about 26stamins from socket bonuses iirc. Will change the enchant on the gloves to see how much more health gear I can wear though, that seems like a nice easy plan. It was one of those decision you make when your inventory is full and you see a gem socket, had completely forgotten I had it in there tbh.

Will try rebuilding my gear set then to see how it goes.
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