Pet Battles

[Jabari]

Ugh. Do not use Death Grip when a flying pet is up in the air, or when you think they might use it and are going first. It switched the active pet out, but the flying type pet stayed stuck flying-status and unhittable until it used the attack again. (A smarter player wouldn't have used it again!)

Ah, I'll add that to my list of bugs I'm about to post.

[Reflect] does some really odd things with flyers (or tunnelers, etc) as well - I reflect a [Fly], both pets go up in the air, his then hits mine, while I attack but keep the Flying "buff" so he can't hit me anymore.

Amusement: [Reflect] an Armageddon = 2 debuffs on both sides. *laugh*

One other really strange oddity: [Poison Spit] hits everything - it'll hit through a 100% dodge buff, plus it also hit "through" my Reflect (but I sent it back too). Haven't seen if it'll hit through a Block (such as a Moth's Cocoon), and I also haven't checked if it'll hit flyers. As an aside, a rare generic Spider is a pretty decent pet - Poison Spit, Brittle Webbing, and Leech Life make for a really annoying opponent.

Also, [Kick] (or other multi-turn interrupts) stun the opponents pet for that turn if they hit first. (Probably intended, but not on the tooltip.)

[Finkum]

Pretty sure this is Working as Intended. Buffs and debuffs with the same name do not stack, they just refresh.

So when my Enhancement Shaman casts a Flame Shock on the boss, and my Elemental buddy does as well, it's just refreshed instead of having 2 DoTs with the same name?

(It's a bug, whether the devs want to admit it or not *chuckle*)

That's incredibly specious reasoning. Pet Battles do not work the same way that "regular" combat does (and it's not like there aren't non-stacking debuffs in regular combat either). You might as well take issue with the fact that the pet ability Conflagrate does not work the same way that the warlock ability does. I repeat, not a bug, working as intended.

[KysenMurrin]

Also, [Kick] (or other multi-turn interrupts) stun the opponents pet for that turn if they hit first. (Probably intended, but not on the tooltip.)

It looks like many buff/debuff/status abilities with are good for the turn they are cast on top of the usual duration if the pet attacks first. This doesn't seem to apply for DoTs and other environment stuff, but does for Survivor, stuns, etc.

Another potential bug: If my Crawdad dies after casting the Whirlpool ability, the status effect remains, and goes off when it should, but deals no damage (it still roots the affected pet).

[Jabari]

That's incredibly specious reasoning. Pet Battles do not work the same way that "regular" combat does (and it's not like there aren't non-stacking debuffs in regular combat either).

Then please tell me what should happen in this case (my moves only, ignoring the opponent for now):

- Turn 1: Level 25 Fel Flame uses [Flame Breath], leaving a DoT that does 70 damage a turn. This ticks once at end-of-turn, 3 turns remaining.
- Turn 2: Swap to Level 10 Voodoo Figurine. DoT ticks, 2 turns remaining.
- Turn 3: Voodoo Figurine uses [Flame Breath]. The DoT it is supposed to leave does 15 a turn.

Option A: Refresh the Fel Flame's DoT (at 70 a turn, 4 turns remaming)?
Option B: Overwrite the Fel Flame's DoT (at 15 a turn, 4 turns remaining)?
Option C: Don't touch the Fel Flame's DoT as it isn't as strong (70 a turn, 1 turn remaining after it ticks this turn).
Option D: Add a second DoT at 15 a turn for 4 turns, leaving the Fel Flame's alone.

Now if it were a non-damage debuff (i.e., reduce speed by 50%), it should certainly just overwrite the existing one with the new duration. (Note that this is exactly how current WoW mechanics work - imagine that!)

It looks like many buff/debuff/status abilities with are good for the turn they are cast on top of the usual duration if the pet attacks first. This doesn't seem to apply for DoTs and other environment stuff, but does for Survivor, stuns, etc.

I think this is fine, actually - they expire at end-of-next-turn regardless. Makes a lot of those types of abilities non-useless, at least (especially [Survival]), though damage+25%-to-stun is really, really good because of it ([Frog Kiss]/[Headbutt]).

Another potential bug: If my Crawdad dies after casting the Whirlpool ability, the status effect remains, and goes off when it should, but deals no damage (it still roots the affected pet).

Same as the "nothing works after dying" I posted earlier (weather effects stop working, as well). Interesting that the root still works - I didn't think it would actually. Will have to try with my Water Waveling's Geyser to see if that'll trigger the stun if the Waveling's dead, or maybe an Armageddon...

[KysenMurrin]

Definite bug: Fighting 3 Scorpids in a wild battle. First one applies a poison to my pet. It dies. Other two regularly refresh poison debuff - it never deals another tick of damage.

[Skye1013]

Definite bug: Fighting 3 Scorpids in a wild battle. First one applies a poison to my pet. It dies. Other two regularly refresh poison debuff - it never deals another tick of damage.

This suggests that maybe this is what's happening:

Option A: Refresh the Fel Flame's DoT (at 70 a turn, 4 turns remaming)?

but since the original pet that placed the poison died, it's no longer having an effect.

[Finkum]

Then please tell me what should happen in this case (my moves only, ignoring the opponent for now):

Option A: Refresh the Fel Flame's DoT (at 70 a turn, 4 turns remaming)?
Option B: Overwrite the Fel Flame's DoT (at 15 a turn, 4 turns remaining)?
Option C: Don't touch the Fel Flame's DoT as it isn't as strong (70 a turn, 1 turn remaining after it ticks this turn).
Option D: Add a second DoT at 15 a turn for 4 turns, leaving the Fel Flame's alone.

All of these options are possible (deliberate) design outcomes. The fact that Blizzard went with option A or B for pet battles and option D for normal combat proves nothing except that there are different rule-sets at works. I get that you find it unintuitive but that doesn't mean it's a bug.

As a point of interest, if we trawl through the history of normal combat all 4 of your options have been implemented at one time or another (although I think we have to go all the way back to Vanilla to see buff/debuff overwriting; ah the good old days of only allowing 1 Renew/Rejuv on the tank!)

[Jabari]

All of these options are possible (deliberate) design outcomes. The fact that Blizzard went with option A or B for pet battles and option D for normal combat proves nothing except that there are different rule-sets at works. I get that you find it unintuitive but that doesn't mean it's a bug.

As a point of interest, if we trawl through the history of normal combat all 4 of your options have been implemented at one time or another (although I think we have to go all the way back to Vanilla to see buff/debuff overwriting; ah the good old days of only allowing 1 Renew/Rejuv on the tank!)

Heh. Cast Renew, get "A stronger effect is on the target". I remember those days!

All of those can certainly be deliberate design decisions, sure. The only one that makes any sense at all (to this amateur game designer) is D, especially since it's two different "characters" casting something that just happen to have the same name. I could almost understand it if I have two separate Fel Flames and it refreshed duration (but it'd still be wrong ).

So I guess "bug" might be slightly too strong, but it's still going into that forum until someone says "working as intended", when it'll just go into the suggestions forum instead.

Progress: Finished [Outland Safari], only a few away from [Pandaria Safari] though I actually have a couple of them the achievement says I'm missing. I also finally managed to snag an Onyxian Whelpling (only common, but was happy just to see the spawn). Still haven't ever seen a Minfernal.

[Finkum]

So I guess "bug" might be slightly too strong, but it's still going into that forum until someone says "working as intended", when it'll just go into the suggestions forum instead.

While this is only speculation on my part, I think that the reason they implemented buffs/debuffs in this fashion is to 1) encourage variety of team composition, 2) make balance easier and 3) limit the strategic depth of the game.

If, for example, the double-damage-taken debuff stacked then you could end up with a pet dealing 400% damage to an opponent (or more if you also had the appropriate buff or weather condition). Even if you only allowed HoT/DoT attacks to stack, there's e.g. a ticking poison attack that increases opponent damage taken. Siphon Life/Plagued Blood could also be problematic, and so on.

[halabar]

Urrghh.. this much theorycraft in pet battles?

One of these days I'll have to try it. (Only did up to lvl 6 or so on beta, haven't touched it on live).

So...

What are good all-around combos of pets?

[Jabari]

While this is only speculation on my part, I think that the reason they implemented buffs/debuffs in this fashion is to 1) encourage variety of team composition, 2) make balance easier and 3) limit the strategic depth of the game.

If, for example, the double-damage-taken debuff stacked then you could end up with a pet dealing 400% damage to an opponent (or more if you also had the appropriate buff or weather condition). Even if you only allowed HoT/DoT attacks to stack, there's e.g. a ticking poison attack that increases opponent damage taken. Siphon Life/Plagued Blood could also be problematic, and so on.

Oh, I wouldn't dream of stacking any non-DoT/HoT stuff - speed changes, +/- %damage or the double-damage-taken debuffs need to be overwritten for sure.

Remember that there's a huge penalty for switching pets - you lose a full turn doing that. I think this makes stacking Siphon etc ok. *shrug*

Urrghh.. this much theorycraft in pet battles?

<snip>

What are good all-around combos of pets?

Not theorycraft, more about game mechanics discussion at the moment.

Anyway, you can't really go wrong just taking 3 individual Rares of different types, that have strong attacks (i.e., better than "baseline"), that don't actively sabotage each other. (So no Dark Whelpings [Darkness] interfering with your Aquatic pet's healing, etc).

It helps if your pets have differing attack types (i.e., the Clockwork Gnome's attacks are Elemental, Humanoid, and Mechanical, as opposed to a random moth that has 3 Flying attacks).

[halabar]

It helps if your pets have differing attack types (i.e., the Clockwork Gnome's attacks are Elemental, Humanoid, and Mechanical, as opposed to a random moth that has 3 Flying attacks).

Any other specific ones that are strong that way?

[Skye1013]

Spirit of Competition has Dragon, Magic, Flying, and Elemental options.

Mini-thor is pure Mechanical, but very tanky (high hp plus a mini-revive for being Mechanical.)

Windrider Cub has Beast, Flying and Critter attacks.

Those are the only ones I have any experience with at the moment.

[Astronomic]

Not at home so I don't know the damage types off the top of my head, btu netherray fry has 6 different damage types.

[Jabari]

Also, it's perfectly fine to have 2 different attack types and a 3rd "utility" skill (the Shield probably being the best, but strong heals, and 100% dodges (on fast chars) and stuff like that can be very nice too.

Windrider Cub has Beast, Flying and Critter attacks.

Thing is, the Windrider Cub doesn't have what I'd call a "strong" attack, just normal stuff. *shrug*

Progress: [Pandaria Safari] complete. Nearly up to 50 rares captured, which is cool.

Frustration: Was wandering around to complete the Kalimdor "catch something in every zone" achievement - was in Ungoro and saw a Diemetrion (sp) Hatchling - go to battle, and there's a rare in the 2nd slot. So I skip the Hatchling and trap the rare, and now I haven't seen a Hatchling spawn since. Argh!

Side note: I believe that it's "winter" now, so the Snowy Owl should be available in Winterspring.

Dumb team idea of the day: Building around the skill that gives your team +50% speed for 9 turns. The Clefthoof Runt has a great attack ([Trample]?) that has a 50% chance to cancel the opponent's turn if the Runt hits first, on only a 1-turn cooldown, but it's slow and needs help going first. Add a 3rd with a [Kick]-like ability or a stun, and something else based on it going first.

[Skye1013]

Not saying the Windrider is exceptional, just stating what it has and that it's one of the few I have experience with. That being said, the damage increase from Flock combos well with the Mini-Thor's DoT and Grenade.

[Jabari]

New Raid Pets:

2/3 from MC
3/3 from BWL (soloed Razorgore too, though it took a few tries)
0/2 from AQ40 (couldn't solo Viscidius with my hunter)
1/3 from Naxx(10)

Not too bad. Hopefully a mage friend is going to help me with the last guy in AQ40.

[Jabari]

So I finally went and did some more PvE pet battles. Started with the last Cata guy (in Uldum) and went thru Grand Master Aki. Only 1 loss, which was nice - all the Panda guys have "legendary" pets.

Tried the first of the new "Pandaria Spirit Tamers", got destroyed. Ouch.

My "main" team is now the Fel Flame, Clockwork Gnome, and Oily Slimeling. The Slimeling is great for this group - he has a shorter-duration Wild Magic-type effect (making the Gnome's [Turret] ridiculous) that also has a DoT of its own, plus a strong heal. The only issue is that it takes more damage from the Flame's [Scorched Earth] but it's so strong I can live with that for now.

Notes:
- DoTs and effects from dead pets now tick normally.
- [Turret] doesn't hit flying/burrowed stuff anymore. Hopefully that means that the [Poison Spit] weirdness is fixed, and possibly the [Reflect]/flying one as well, though I haven't tried those.
- I got a [Perfect Critter Stone] - upgrades a Critter pet from anything to rare. Did quite a few "wild" battles and only got one, so those seem pretty rare.

[Gab]

New Raid Pets:

2/3 from MC
3/3 from BWL (soloed Razorgore too, though it took a few tries)
0/2 from AQ40 (couldn't solo Viscidius with my hunter)
1/3 from Naxx(10)

Not too bad. Hopefully a mage friend is going to help me with the last guy in AQ40.

Similar to my numbers:

2/3 MC
2/3 BWL
2/3 AQ40
1/3 Naxx (25)

Drop rates seem pretty good from my experiences and from what I have heard from others.

I'm not sure about hunters but as a Ret paladin I easily soloed Viscidius. I imagine hunters should have an easier time.

I just bought a Brunnhildar Harpoon for the frost damage (hunter can use the bow). They are sold by Warsmith Sigfinna in Storm Peaks. I have also heard you can use Frost Oil but with only a 10% proc chance it sounds like it would take a lot longer.

I was wearing haste heavy Ret gear and using haste food and elixir. I froze him using the Harpoon then switched to a 1.6 one hander and popped Kafa Press and had no trouble shattering him, I think I had a lot of time to spare so the Kafa Press might not be necessary.

Hunters should have it a lot easier when it comes to shattering thanks to Zoo. Stampede, Dire beast, crows and your normal pet should be more than enough to shatter in time.

[Flex]

Viscidus
Viscidus now remains frozen for 30 seconds (was 15), and it takes 30 hits to shatter Viscidus (was 50).
The Twin Emperors
The recast time for Heal Brother has been increased to 3 seconds (was 2).
C'thun
Players now have 5 minutes to escape C'thun's stomach and resume the battle before it resets.
Al'ar
Al'ar and Ember of Al'ar are no longer immune to fire damage.
Reliquary of Souls
Spirit Shock now has a 15 second recast time (was 0 seconds).

[halabar]

Is the Darkmoon rabbit any good? Bidding on one for a low price, but considering just flipping it on another server.

[Invisusira]

0/3 MC
0/3 BWL
3/3 AQ
1/3 Naxx

[Skye1013]

C'thun
Players now have 5 minutes to escape C'thun's stomach and resume the battle before it resets.

That's.... more time than the entire fight takes to complete...

Then again, I never had an issue with the fight resetting, just getting eaten then one shot because nobody was outside the stomach.

[Worldie]

So how do you solo Razorgore anyway. Clean up the shit after every mind control, or ignore adds completely and just focus on eggs?

[Jabari]

So how do you solo Razorgore anyway. Clean up the shit after every mind control, or ignore adds completely and just focus on eggs?

Ack, sorry - I put this into the 5.1 thread instead of here.

Also, I was able to do Razorgore - it took a few tries to figure it out, but was pretty easy once I did, even with my non-healing petless hunter:
- Kill the 3 guys next to the Orb, quick.
- Use Orb, start killing eggs at the back of the room (furthest from orb). Get anything near you, then get all of them that are up on the back platform, come down the other side, and go side-to-side across the room, back to front.
- The first Orb will run out after 90 seconds - Razorgore still should be near the back of the room - kill everything hitting you and when Razorgore gets toward the front of the room use the Orb again. He may still have a few guys beating on him but that's ok.
- This time, start with the 2 eggs up on the Orb's platform, and then kill the rest of them - you should be done with all of them with both of you at reasonable health still.

The trick is to really spam the "destory egg" button - it only has a 1 second cooldown and you need to kill eggs and move really quick. The hunter has an advantage that he can pick off a few guys beating on Razorgore in between "controls", but Razorgore had so much health at the end (1/3) when I did it right it really shouldn't matter.