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Question about Haste vs Mastery

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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby Sagara » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:02 am

Kind of a tossup. Haste has the advantage of higher DPS, at the cost of faster spamming (requiring quicker reaction time for roughly equal defensive results).

I'd say go for haste first, and if the rythm is "too fast", switch to mastery.
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby daishan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:35 am

I'm gearing haste > mastery atm. I did have a thought about tank switch fights that might mean mastery is better for those, if we're cleaver with our SotR use on fights where we aren't getting beat on all the time haste would have a smaller effect on our effective SotR uptime. Making mastery a more effective damage reducer on those types of fights?
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby Treck » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:03 am

Well, you mean as in, you have 5 HP when you start tanking, effectively making haste "useless" (in terms of dmg reduction) to get those 5 HP, and mastery would just increase the benefit from that, yes mastery should be slightly better at that very instant.
But after those 6sec (if you are using all HP for shields) you need the haste to build up holypower fast again.
It should make tank swaps a lot smoother if you aim for mastery.
Take will of the emperor as an example, its a very gimmicky fight, but its craptons of tank damage, but you can always start with 5x holypower, Id say that mastery clearly wins here over haste due to that very fact, I dont feel an extra 5% haste would change the effective uptime on shield of the righteous much, but at the same time even when haste geared, if you ever die, its cause the buff wasnt up, you dont get killed while its up (unless the hit before took you really low.
It could be argued both ways, either that you didnt have enough haste to get another shieldslam off, or if you had more mastery you wouldnt go so low after a hit.

But my general feel is that shield of the righteous is so strong even without much mastery (not to mention 4set tier, +10% free mitigation on shield), that there is little need to increase the reduction if you can choose to increase the uptime.

Still, what holds true is that mastery and haste are changing "values" depending depending on the encounter, altho most of the time its going to be very small differance.
I prefer haste for its smoothing out properties.
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:07 am

Treck wrote:But my general feel is that shield of the righteous is so strong even without much mastery (not to mention 4set tier, +10% free mitigation on shield), that there is little need to increase the reduction if you can choose to increase the uptime.

Still, what holds true is that mastery and haste are changing "values" depending depending on the encounter, altho most of the time its going to be very small differance.
I prefer haste for its smoothing out properties.


Haste is also extra DPS, and more SoI/GoBH heals.
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby jsantana » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:35 am

Depends on the fight and playstyle, and of course the pros and cons between haste vs. Mastery. Mastery affects our sotr dmg buff, increases bog, and increases our block chance; whereas, haste will affect our soi, sacred shield,battle healer,and dps I could think of. If it's fight with fast hitting mobs or even just multiple mobs mastery seems stronger due block chance but that depends how well soi,sacred shield,battle healer would do against the x amount of values in dmg mitigation, hps, and dps. I think haste is awesome rating to shoot because with this content raid there is many fights with raid wide dmg,especially going into heart of fear a few fights with adds.the will of the emperor given how hard the boss hits I think mastery would seem more appealing to have that extra block chance and bog buff when those bosses drop you low on hp.but I haven't done any math to weigh the difference between the effectiveness of mastery vs. Haste impact on our stats, rating stats, talents, glyphs, against different boss type fights. I believe theck has a sim with haste vs. Mastery but right now dude, getting enough haste in our gear progression is very small because we want to make sure we are hit cap and hard expertise, at leverage some EH, don't wanna be a tank under 500k or 450k hp later into the tier then again depends how good your gear is with those stats. Hopefully this gives you some insight.
Last edited by jsantana on Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby Treck » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:35 am

I was speaking purely about mitigation, but yes it has even more benefits, but mastery also has the passive block and increased WoG heals (bastion however is just like shield of the righteous, its very strong even without mastery)
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby jsantana » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:02 am

daishan wrote:I'm gearing haste > mastery atm. I did have a thought about tank switch fights that might mean mastery is better for those, if we're cleaver with our SotR use on fights where we aren't getting beat on all the time haste would have a smaller effect on our effective SotR uptime. Making mastery a more effective damage reducer on those types of fights?



First rule to scope out is what type of fight is that could require better use of haste or mastery. If Will of the Emp, then I see mastery being advantageous, if its elegon, then haste seems more appealing. Best way to figure out reforge in a quick moment in each fight is to go to ask mr robot and there are two pre set stat for mastery or haste thats based off of theck theory crafting.
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby Lightvein » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:01 pm

What should we be aiming for Expertise-wise? Mr. Robot seems to think it's 15%, so the Haste vs. Mastery argument seems rather moot since every reforge is going for Exp.
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby jsantana » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:18 pm

7.5% hit and 15% exprtise and then mastery vs haste becomes more valuable. The logic is your HoPo generators wont ever miss nor be dodged/parried thus more control building up HoPo to utilize the use of SOTR more predictably. Whereas, if one of your HoPo generators were parried you just lost that ability to generate HoPo and have to wait for the next ability to come off CD generates HoPo. This could result in a situation with boss melee swing and possible combination of a mechanic possibly killing you or bringing you to low HP. Lets say Elegon hits u with celestial breath with high stacks of the debuff, and drops you to 30% and your at 2 HoPo and CS is up for to get that extra HoPo in order to strike SOTR, but elegon just parried that ability and no HoPo and hits u with melee swing of that drops you to 10k hp at that point your gambling with the healer reacting quickly to top u off or you pop a cd to save you from the next blow, i rather be expertise cap, get my HoPo at 3 charges and strike SOTR and mitigate that melee swing and giving my healer a realistic time to react and maybe use survival cd like divine protection glyph to minimize the next set of dmg for the next 10 seconds as my OT comes over to taunt switch.
Last edited by jsantana on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby jsantana » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:20 pm

Forgot to mention the first half of 7.5 % of expertise prevent the boss from dodging your attack and the rest of the 7.5% prevent the boss from parrying your attacks = 15%, which completely removes the bosses (lvl 93) ability to dodge and parry your attacks.
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Re: Question about Haste vs Mastery

Postby jsantana » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:26 pm

Also, I believe as I read from Theck post on SacredDuty that SOTR buff will occur even if that ability was parried or dodge and even missed? But the fact you need HoPo to use it, you want to minimize the risk of the gamble, especially if healers are stressed with raid wide dmg, as a tank its all about controlling the dmg taken, you're very much the fine line between a wipe and successful boss kill, because you can control almost every aspect of the dmg coming at you and if healer are good, then it should be a smooth dmg experience.
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