Post Your Amusements!

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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Shoju » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:43 pm

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:All I'm hearing is

ZOMG MY KIDS MIGHT LEARN ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN MY INCREDIBLY NARROW PERSPECTIVE ABOUT THINGS OMG WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS? WHY CAN'T MY KIDS JUST BE FORCE FED WHAT I WANT THEM TO KNOW!?

Sorry, I don't see what the big deal is. The article states that they have taken as much of the religion out of it as possible, and it's being used as a form of being active.


WTF?

So, if I have children, you as a school adminstrator can decide that I'm being narrow-minded and teach my kids what you feel is appropriate, including religions other than my own? FU

So it's OK for an atheist to sue about the pledge and "In God we Trust", but it's not ok for someone to be against a exercise system that a core part of Hindu meditation?


I guess you didn't read, or are holding on to something where you don't believe, that they removed most of the religious parts from the class. Are you going to hold them out of history classes too? Because those teach your children about other religions too.

I'm definitely not going to jump to conclusions and say "Well, I know that they said that they removed the religious aspects of it and are using it purely as a form of exercise, but I know that they are teaching my children to be secret HINDU AGENTS IN MY HOME."

There are alternatives to you sending your kids to a school where they might possibly learn something other than your own religious beliefs. You could always home school them, or send them to a Private Religiously affiliated school. Then, you can ensure that they don't learn about anything other than what you want, they don't have to be taught evolution, and you can have more control over how their thoughts and ideas are shaped.

I just don't get why in the world people would be bothered by a Yoga class. The parents are legally allowed to observe the class. They can't tell you "no". The parents could see if they are really being brainwashed into "Secret Hindus" before being unhappy because OMG teh skool wantz dem to be moor activ, bcuz obeesutee is killun da kideez

I would be excited if they brought a yoga class to my kids school. It would give them something interesting to learn about, and from the sounds of this class it isn't mandatory. That's great. Kids should be given every chance to learn about the world, and the people, and the cultures that are a part of it.

halabar wrote:The difference is what you are focusing on. A higher power, your inner space, your energy center, what you just had for lunch.

Like I said, having gone through this in my college course, it was clear that while it was supposed to be religious-neutral, the instructor still has to give instructions on what to focus on. For yoga, it's inner-energy-chi-etc.

The core problem is that a 10 or 12 year old kid may not realize what the difference is from what he's taught at home.


Yes. Yoga is very inner focused. It is about unlocking "something" inside yourself.

If you don't want your kids to learn about something that is different than what they are being taught at home, I reiterate my point. Home School them, or send them to a private school. Otherwise? They should learn everything that there is to know out there.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:50 pm

Shoju wrote:I guess you didn't read, or are holding on to something where you don't believe, that they removed most of the religious parts from the class. Are you going to hold them out of history classes too? Because those teach your children about other religions too.

If you don't want your kids to learn about something that is different than what they are being taught at home, I reiterate my point. Home School them, or send them to a private school. Otherwise? They should learn everything that there is to know out there.


And I guess you didn't read the part about what the core of yoga is. You can't really remove the religion without replacing it with something else. Most of the yoga moves don't make sense without the meditation part. If all they are doing are teaching the stretching moves, then it's just low-impact pilaties (sp?) and it's not an issue, but since it's funded by an outside group, I doubt that.

Also, there's a difference between learning ABOUT another religion, and PARTICIPATING in some of it's principles. Yoga is not the same as history class.

So what you are really saying is that after yoga, we should send all those kids to catechism? and then for some LDS teaching, since that's big in San Diego as well?

Actually, the best equivalent would be to teach the kids to use rosary beads as a meditation technique.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby bldavis » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:58 pm

so when i had a class on tai-chi i was being brainwashed into eastern beliefs? :roll:

i agree with the history class comment
they teach you about other religions as well, maybe we should ban them too!

just for clarification, seminary for lds kids (mormons) is like a bible study group basically
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Shoju » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:23 pm

halabar wrote:And I guess you didn't read the part about what the core of yoga is. You can't really remove the religion without replacing it with something else. Most of the yoga moves don't make sense without the meditation part. If all they are doing are teaching the stretching moves, then it's just low-impact pilaties (sp?) and it's not an issue, but since it's funded by an outside group, I doubt that.

Also, there's a difference between learning ABOUT another religion, and PARTICIPATING in some of it's principles. Yoga is not the same as history class.

So what you are really saying is that after yoga, we should send all those kids to catechism? and then for some LDS teaching, since that's big in San Diego as well?

Actually, the best equivalent would be to teach the kids to use rosary beads as a meditation technique.


I'm pretty familiar with Yoga, thanks, I understand it, and I'm pretty sure that If you've only "observed it in college", I'm probably a little more versed than you about it.

Yes. Doubt it. Please. Because it's all some giant conspiracy aimed at removing the Christian "God" from life, and trampling all over your life, while forcing your children to become a part of some other religion. :o


Participating in some of it's principles? That's your fear?! Well then, tell me Mr. Halabar, do you let your kids go Trick or Treating? Do you let them celebrate a "traiditional" Christmas, with a Christmas Tree, and Santa Claus? Because really, if you are going to start playing the "Participating Card", your life better be devoid of costumes, and Halloween, and Christmas Trees, and Santa Claus, and I could go on and on, but I think that those examples are enough.

Seriously. singling out a Yoga Class that was designed to remove the religious element, and geared for kids because you are afraid that it is going to teach them something bad, is the same type of bullshit rhetoric I heard as a kid.

"Playing Dungeons and Dragons is going to make you a Devil Worshiper! And Send you to HELL! And the DEVIL is going to EAT YOUR SOUL!"
"Listening to Rock and Roll means that you are a Devil Worshiper!"
"Participating in Yoga will make you a Hindu!"
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby bldavis » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:35 pm

i love seeing ppl claim christmas (in the middle of winter for the northern hemisphere) is celebrating the birth of jesus, even though in the bible it is stated he was born when the shepards are dealing with lambs...and lambs are born in april/may >.>

if you truly want to not have your kids exposed to any other religion well lets see
no halloween (based mostly on wiccan beliefs as well as old druidic traditions of Samhain), and no christmas (feast/festival of saturn)
at least halloween has a christian component with all hallows day
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:38 pm

Yes, yes, I'm the crazy paranoid one.. I should be open to everything... whatever.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby bldavis » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:08 pm

halabar wrote:Yes, yes, I'm the crazy paranoid one.. I should be open to everything... whatever.

maybe not everything....but freaking out cause your kids might learn a little bit about another culture is a bit much
(and no that wasnt at you hal, just a statement)
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:28 pm

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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Levantine » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:33 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Image

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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:38 pm

Would it be the same if it was Tai-chi? Although they would prolly claim they're trying to indoctrinate their kids in communist ideals
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby degre » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:40 pm

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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Amirya » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:22 pm

bldavis wrote:no halloween (based mostly on wiccan beliefs as well as old druidic traditions of Samhain), and no christmas (feast/festival of saturn)
at least halloween has a christian component with all hallows day

Easter - Ostara
May Day - Beltane
Christmas - Yule

to be quite technical re Wicca. The others are much more minor, in the grand scheme of religion comparison.

However, now I have to ask:
1) Does everything have to be an anti-<insert faith of choice here> conspiracy?
2) If the yogic meditation technique suggested focusing on the <insert deity of choice here> that fills the very soul/body/chakras, would there still Be An Issue?
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby bldavis » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:40 pm

the way i look at it is you have your beliefs, i have mine
if you ask, i will tell you about mine
i wont force them on you, you dont force yours on me

but a minor thing like focusing on chi isnt forcing a religion on someone, as there is a huge step between using focus and control for fitness and believing reincarnation and 6 armed gods of war (or death or w/e they are..sorry any hindus, no disrespect intended)
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby masterpoobaa » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:52 pm

lol.
Americans and Religion.
Really funny from down here in Australia.

According to statistics some 2/3 of Australians hold some sort of religious affiliation,
But most would be non practicing.

I think the Australian standard is "Yeah there is some sorta god, yet get married in a church, funeral in a church... rest of the time we don't bother about it.

Our politicians don't spend much (if any) time making speeches about thier religiousness.
They are too busy telling us lies to get elected/re-elected. :D
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:50 pm

halabar wrote:If all they are doing are teaching the stretching moves, then it's just low-impact pilaties (sp?) and it's not an issue, but since it's funded by an outside group, I doubt that.

Unfortunately, I'm limited in the research I can conduct at work, but has there been any suggestion that it isn't pilates with a yoga name? Everything I've been able to find says the religion aspect has been removed. The director of the Jois Foundation (that is funding the classes) has stated that the group isn't religious and that the board of directors is made up of many faiths. Granted, he could be lying, but I don't have any reason to doubt it at the moment.

Additionally, the school board is selecting the instructors for it, not the foundation, so unless all of these teachers go and get brainwashed out of their own faiths, I can't really see it being "force fed" to the kids.

Yes, yoga did start out with a basis of Eastern religions, however, I'm willing to bet that once it became a widespread form of workout, most of those ties were removed. Sure you focus on your breathing (maybe some groups actually discuss "chi"), but where in that are you suddenly following another person's religion? If they replaced "chi" with "holy spirit" would it suddenly be ok?

I'll keep digging to see if I can find any sort of proof one way or the other, but I think the whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion.

As some have mentioned, what about various forms of martial arts? How many of those started out religiously based and are now primarily used to teach discipline and get exercise?
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby benebarba » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:06 am

Skye1013 wrote:As some have mentioned, what about various forms of martial arts? How many of those started out religiously based and are now primarily used to teach discipline and get exercise?


since I haven't had my swing at this horse, here goes:

in both western and eastern martial arts (at least the older ones), the religious/spirtual/mystical aspects generally come along for the ride because they are methods by which certain philosophical or mechanical concepts can concisely be described within the culture that generated the art. Once it begins to be removed from that context, stuff starts to seem either more 'mystic' or simply anachronistic.

Make no mistake, folks have made small (and some not so small) fortunes selling the mystical end. But that does not necessarily mean that the arts themselves were 'religious'... more that the originators practiced some specific belief system that was just a part of the cultural context for the art.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby benebarba » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:17 am

Amusement: now that the temps have swung back up to like 70 degrees outside, my office has decided to turn the heat on.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Shoju » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:28 am

halabar wrote:Yes, yes, I'm the crazy paranoid one.. I should be open to everything... whatever.


This is my last reply on this topic.

Here is the basis of why I think everyone, including/especially Christians should be far more open to other cultures, religions, ways of life. It is a 2 fold point.

Now, I'm going to use a word in this reply, and I want to make sure that I squash the idiotic comments related to that word before they start.

a dictionary wrote:xen·o·pho·bi·a   [zen-uh-foh-bee-uh, zee-nuh-] Show IPA
noun
an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.


I'm going to be using this term. When you think "Foreign", think "Not my Religion", and when you think "Strange" think something along the lines of "ZOMG YOGA IS BASED ON EASTERN RELIGIONS AND IS GOING TO MAKE MY KIDS SECRET HINDU AGENTS WTFBBQ QQ"

Point #1: The task of witnessing.
If you fall under the ever expanding umbrella of Christianity, you will know that the bible tells you to go forth and bring the message of God unto all the people. Sometime between when those words were spoken by Jesus, and 2012, someone got the idea that this meant that the best way to accomplish this, was to be borderline Xenophobic, claiming that everyone else is wrong, and that they are evil people. This has taken hold in churches, and you see far more people picketing in a "WBC" style. It's not always that.... "bad", but the same vein of "shock protest to bring you to God. What happened to the New Testament message of Love? Even Jesus found himself surrounded at times by sinners, and those who didn't believe. He didn't scream at them "YOU WILL ALL BURN IN THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR YOUR HEATHENISM!" The only time Jesus is said to have come even close to this type of behavior was in the temple, when he laid a beat down on the Pharisees and Sadducees. I personally feel that portions of the modern Christian / Catholic / LDS / Mormon (Believers in God/Christ) Church have fallen into that same ideology.

The basis of my whole point is, There are two ways to get your message across. You can go the "Jonah" route, which would probably be considered the Westboro Baptist "Shock Route" Or you can go the "Jesus and Mary Magdaline" Route where you sit, and talk, and explain, and be level headed route, where you learn and share knowledge.

The problem with the "Jonah" route, is that unless the populace knows that you were just "puked out by a whale", your shock rock story is just going to be shock rock.


Point #2: Protecting the rights and beliefs of others.
This is a serious pet peeve of mine. People are so quick and so decisive to defend their own rights, and freedoms of religion, that they are ready to trample, muffle, and dispose, of other people's freedoms. The Xenophobic tendencies that the people in all faiths show towards other faiths, is just disappointing. Instead of understanding that by standing with people of another religion when their freedoms are oppressed, or threatened, or trampled on, many (not all) people of faith will find it "ok" because "they were wrong anyway!"

Perpetuation of stereotypes is also a serious problem as well. IN this case, I feel that the constant push to ignore the statements that they have removed the religion aspects, and essentially turned it into Pilates Lite (64 calories, same great taste!), because you are phobic of your children learning and participating in something that isn't part of a very narrow world view, does a disservice to actual Hindu believers, and a disservice to yourself.

If people of faith would stop quarreling with other people of faith, and embrace the differences as what they are (culture, geography, and time), and work to protect all of their mutual, shared desires of freedom, we wouldn't have to worry about who prays where, and who does what.


I tire greatly of seeing people rail against something because "It's not my FAITH!", and they apply the argument arbitrarily to those things that bother them, or that they find "Icky"
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Era » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:34 am

We're all church-burning communists here in Norway (which is a small town in northern Russia)! Sometimes we have religious field trips to the UK and fix their not-on-fire villages.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:44 am

Skye1013 wrote:Yes, yoga did start out with a basis of Eastern religions, however, I'm willing to bet that once it became a widespread form of workout, most of those ties were removed. Sure you focus on your breathing (maybe some groups actually discuss "chi"), but where in that are you suddenly following another person's religion? If they replaced "chi" with "holy spirit" would it suddenly be ok?


That's kinda the point. The nature of the "mediation" part of it requires something to focus on, and so, as I mentioned before, it's Chi, Holy Spirit, Inner Self, what-you-had-for-lunch. It can't really be neutral.

Again, if all they are doing is teaching the stretching and poses, where it amounts to low-impact pilates, then no one would care as much.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:47 am

benebarba wrote:in both western and eastern martial arts (at least the older ones), the religious/spirtual/mystical aspects generally come along for the ride because they are methods by which certain philosophical or mechanical concepts can concisely be described within the culture that generated the art...


True, but that's why you also see a lot of "christian" martial arts schools, where they replace the eastern themes with Christian themes.

At the end of the day, if it was an elective class, I wouldn't care (providing that classes with other alternate themes were available). But if it's a required class that parents need to hold their kids out of, that's a problem.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby halabar » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:53 am

Shoju wrote:Perpetuation of stereotypes is also a serious problem as well. IN this case, I feel that the constant push to ignore the statements that they have removed the religion aspects, and essentially turned it into Pilates Lite (64 calories, same great taste!), because you are phobic of your children learning and participating in something that isn't part of a very narrow world view, does a disservice to actual Hindu believers, and a disservice to yourself.


One question... where's the equal time (in the school)?

We are NOT talking about cultural awareness here as you are trying to push it, we are talking about a class in a school for 10-year olds that potentially teaches some fundemental concepts of eastern religions.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby bldavis » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:00 am

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:Perpetuation of stereotypes is also a serious problem as well. IN this case, I feel that the constant push to ignore the statements that they have removed the religion aspects, and essentially turned it into Pilates Lite (64 calories, same great taste!), because you are phobic of your children learning and participating in something that isn't part of a very narrow world view, does a disservice to actual Hindu believers, and a disservice to yourself.


One question... where's the equal time (in the school)?

We are NOT talking about cultural awareness here as you are trying to push it, we are talking about a class in a school for 10-year olds that potentially teaches some fundemental concepts of eastern religions.

warning, incoming post will be full of snark and assholery
if you get offended...well ....oh well! you were warned

if you are that closed off to your kids learning about another culture/religion...home school them?
private school?

10 year olds learning how to calm down, focus on their breathing and doing stretching...yes this is HORRIBLE
at that age, i am pretty sure they arent grasping the religious side unless they are told this is what god/buddah/jehova wants you to do for your soul! and being it is in a public school, if that was happening i would be a bit upset too, but being in a public school....they really cant teach teh religious side so it is focusing more on just the physical act i assume

if it is a private school...who gives a f**k?
you dont like it? take your kid out of the school and stop paying tuition!


yes this can be veiwed as a flame post
no it wasnt meant as one, this is just meant as a rant
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby Flex » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:03 am

This thread is dumb.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: Post Your Amusements!

Postby bldavis » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:23 am

Flex wrote:This thread is dumb.

just the current discussion
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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bldavis
 
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

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