Politics (formerly Election 2012)

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:33 pm

Since I work in the educational field, I'd say it has dropped across the board.

Raises are handed out across the board as well -- the only difference is seniority and special stipends given to teachers in certain positions, like master teacher or special education teacher.

the problem the educational field has, specially in texas, is budget cuts. our school district had its budget cut by 10 million two years ago... and texas is intent in cutting it again...
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:38 pm

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Melathys » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:11 am

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Aubade » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:43 am

Got my Voter Pamphlet today in the mail!

Haven't read the candidates yet but read all of the iniatives/referendums on the WA Ballot today. Excited to see if our new Marijuana law goes through.

although the taxes set forth in the law are RIDICULOUS. 25% from grower -> Processor, 25% from Processor -> Retailer -> 25%(Plus 9.7% Sales tax) From Retailer -> consumer. And at a $3 a gram from grower->Processor, $6 a GRam from processor ->Retailer and $12 a gram retail price (estimated prices), the state is looking to make almost a billion dollars in the next 5 years, at the LOW end of the spectrum.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:56 am

I read an interesting article in the Economist yesterday about how the budget crisis amongst states has had the unintended consequence of social change due to loosening of regulations and restrictions.

Several states have allowed gambling and casinos in, in the hopes of added revenue. A couple have made fireworks legal, and a large number of previously "dry" states and counties have allowed the sale of alcohol, expanded it's sale to Sundays, increased the hours for sales, or privatized the state monopoly on booze. (That was one interesting thing I discovered; many states have had a monopoly on alcohol sales ever since the end of Prohibition!)
A couple states also have weed legalization on the ballot.

All of these have been driven by the desire to find ways to raise more revenue without raising income taxes. The hope is that more sales of more things will bring in increased sales tax.

Oddly enough, many of these initiatives are being specifically marketed to the state legislatures on the grounds of limited government and liberty, but have been previously (and even in many cases STILL) opposed by Republican-controlled state legislatures or governors because things like selling beer on a Sunday gives social conservatives the willies.
It took the scramble to find new revenue in order to push many of these deregulations through.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:09 am

So... uh... what is the religious stance on weed? I mean, I'm sure it's a sin or something, but I don't think I've ever heard of any Bible verses that speak out against it (maybe it's because people are too concerned about gays and babies to be all that worried about getting high...)
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Re: Election 2012

Postby aureon » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:11 am

Skye1013 wrote:So... uh... what is the religious stance on weed? I mean, I'm sure it's a sin or something, but I don't think I've ever heard of any Bible verses that speak out against it (maybe it's because people are too concerned about gays and babies to be all that worried about getting high...)

The bible has no stances on weed, exactly like it has no stance on abortion. Gays are somewhat debatable, but still dubious territory, far beyond "earth is flat" territory.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Thalia » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:43 am

Skye1013 wrote:So... uh... what is the religious stance on weed? I mean, I'm sure it's a sin or something, but I don't think I've ever heard of any Bible verses that speak out against it (maybe it's because people are too concerned about gays and babies to be all that worried about getting high...)


Guess you can always use the "Your body is your Temple" to negate it, but that goes for anything that would harm your body or brain cells. My personal brain cell killer of choice is the pumpkin ale beers, I love them, everything else IMO is a waste of money and stinks to high heaven. Smell of weed makes me want to puke. Same thing with cigarettes, i can't stand hugging my mother in law she smells like an ash trey.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:50 am

what if you follow the school of hedonism?
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Thalia » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:01 am

Klaudandus wrote:what if you follow the school of hedonism?



You know I don't know if it will really help. They are just gonna tax the weed like they tax the liquor here, to high heaven. I still get my alcohol, the good stuff, from California sometimes cuz they tax it so high here. They will do the same to the weed and people will still go get their weed from their weed dealers who will probably sell it at half price. Plus that still doesn't fix the spending problem.

The more revenue you get means you will find something to spend it on...well at least in government it usually does. Personally, I have seen my income quadruple over the last 7 years, yet so did my bills...sigh. But at least it was due to an investment, which is now self sustaining and starting to show profit (aka the comic book store).
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:11 am

well, my comment was very tongue in cheek

and glad to hear the comic book store is doing well

also, yeah... govt will always find ways to spend money, just wish they were wiser about it

i mean, cutting education doesnt make much sense, although the education system in the us is broken...

i'll get into more detail later, but i am on my phone
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:18 pm

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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:40 pm

Klaudandus wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/20/arthur-allen_n_1992370.html?utm_hp_ref=politics


uuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh~


I am of two minds when it comes to this issue.

One the one hand, this is totally free speech. A CEO is just a citizen, and can advocate whoever they want. It's not the government's place to ban or place limitations on that kind of speech.

On the other hand, however, the employer-employee relationship is NOT an equal one, and these CEOs are definitely making their statements within the context of that employer-employee relationship using company email and throwing their titles around, not as one private citizen to another. There are definite undertones of "Vote the way I tell you to, or I will conduct massive layoffs to express my displeasure."
While technically legal, I think that kind of behavior is HIGHLY unethical.

If these CEOs merely wanted to express their free speech and make a persuasive appeal to voters, they should do something like write an opinion piece for a local newspaper.
Doing what they are doing smacks of coercion, not free speech.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:54 pm

If only corporations were subject to the UCMJ... that shit wouldn't fly at all.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:08 pm

Unfortunately, I have almost no time to respond to a lot of this stuff over the last few pages, as I've been unexpectedly slammed with work. However, this issue keeps coming up and I just can't bite my lip any longer.

I'm honestly a bit mystified by the complaint here given that this sort of thing is standard operating procedure for democrats, it's one of their biggest and most effective strategies.

They go after the worker, with the same sorts of comments, through their unions. Often it's ethically worse though because unions also force workers to join (non right to work states), force them to pay dues, contribute those dues to political candidates regardless of the positions of their members, and "ask" their members to "volunteer" (is it really volunteering if they take role?) for all sorts of political things. Heck I used to work in a union shop, which was state employees, and the hallway bulletin boards were full of this sort of stuff.

Employers have all sorts of restrictions and risk significant legal exposure if they were to actually threaten, much less follow through, with retaliation for a vote which they can't even access anyhow. So they stick to the mantra that electing person X will cause us to lose money, and if we lose money we have to lay off workers. Unions can't really access that vote either, but they do make that exact same claim and they can and do coerce their members to support their candidates, and even ridicule them... http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/0 ... JT20120802 when they don't.

If Romney's phone call (which he's probably more than happy was recorded, because now folks are talking about something that the premise of which is that he's better for jobs), or bosses suggesting to their employees who to vote for bothers you, then you ought to be downright pissed about one of the primary strategies of the democrats.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Malthrax » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:16 am

Which just reinforces my thesis that "Any time a Liberal accuses a Conservative of doing something negative, its to divert attention from the fact that said Liberal just got done doing the same damned thing. Goose -> Gander."
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Brekkie » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:39 am

It's just as unethical when unions do it. Agreed.

The main difference is, very very few people belong to a union. EVERYBODY has a boss. This is fighting fire with nuclear bombs.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:41 am

Brekkie wrote:This is fighting fire with nuclear bombs.

But it worked so well in WWII! >.>
Last edited by Skye1013 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:44 am

Brekkie wrote:It's just as unethical when unions do it. Agreed.

The main difference is, very very few people belong to a union. EVERYBODY has a boss. This is fighting fire with nuclear bombs.


I don't know about other unions, but I belong to the TSTA, which is the largest teacher's union in Texas and part of the NEA (which is the largest teacher union in the country) -- we do endorse candidates, and some of the money goes to their campaigns -- but I've never heard anyone say you gotta vote for X candidate. (And I used to be in the union's electoral committee)
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:49 am

Dude the AFL-CIO alone boasts 11 million members. Hell they were claiming that they would produce 400,000 "volunteers" to work for the Obama campaign. That's freaking nuclear!

I don't think you can compare that sort of organization to a recorded conference call. There is absolutely no question that the democrats use this tactic both more often and far more effectively.

Democrats have exactly zero moral high ground on this issue.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:58 am

As for education. The Texas Education system is broken as you guys have no idea.

The state is cutting funds to Education in general, The TEA is held hostage by a group of right-wing people that pretty much consider science an anathema, so the curriculum is all fubar. Talking about curriculum, CSCOPE is a broken curriculum system to begin with -- we have math teachers that cry that they cannot teach math if their ceiling mounted projector, in part because that's what CSCOPE tells them to use to teach the class.

Every time I hear a teacher complain they cannot teach something because their laptop is broken or because their ceiling projector is broken I have to repress the urge to kill the on the spot.

My mother taught math for 40 years without using a projector. Heck, my mom taught trigonometry using the trigonometric tables, at middle school level, through the time she was a middle school teacher. Oh yeah, you could not use calculators in her class until the last two months or so of the school year, after you knew how to do all the operations by hand.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:00 am

Have you thought that maybe union people actually volunteered willingly to help the Obama campaign? I would if I could...
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:38 am

Klaudandus wrote:Have you thought that maybe union people actually volunteered willingly to help the Obama campaign? I would if I could...

Of course and I'm willing to bet that most people who volunteer actually want to, but that doesn't mean its not incentivized either. Did it ever occur to you that these employees might want to know who their CEO feels is in the best interest of the company that pays them? I know that I'd like to know that, not that it would change my vote at all, but I'd be interested in knowing.

I think it's a bit unethical either way, but how about at least a little bit of objectivity and fairness in this thread. If you're going to complain about a tactic at least complain a little bit about the group that uses it, by far, more effectively.
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:48 am

And I get your point.

But from what I've been involved in the union, I've never seen the union threat its members regarding whom they're supposed to vote for, and these CEOs kind of are (well, the guy at the timeshares resorts did pretty much threat them -- you know, the whole, I'll fire you all and I'll just retire to the Bahamas)
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Re: Election 2012

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:06 am

Meh that's just parsing words. Technically he didn't threaten them or tell them who they "have" to vote for and he shouldn't be able to find out that information anyhow.

One could argue that he did nothing different than "endorsing" a candidate. He certainly didn't take money from his employees to contribute to a campaign. I have seen first hand though where unions have told their members who it was in their best interest to vote for which seems pretty equivalent to what these dudes are doing.

I probably don't disagree with you about curiculum stuff (not that I know the specifics of that plan, but I'll take your word for it), but that's one of the prices you pay when you choose to let government control something.  If the government makes a poor choice, you're stuck with it.  That's one of the attractions of charter/privates schools, but of course that system needs to be implemented properly (oversight) or it suffers some of the same problems too.

My daughter's school is always crying for more money, yet every freaking classroom is equipped with state of the art computers, a digital whiteboard, and projector systems that make even fortune 500 meeting rooms jealous.  My daughter's school doesn't have a single chalk board...that's just weird to me.  Granted all of that equipment could have all been donated, schools are frequently dealing with "pots" of money, it's not a good system overall and can make things seem a bit misleading.  That said, I have no complaints about the quality of the education she is receiving at her public school.


alright...back to work for me...
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