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Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Cema » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:03 pm

Yeah, vengeance stealth nerf just happened. Can confirm it.

Always getting between 5k and 50k vengeance on 10M Heroic Four Kings tonight instead of 160k. Very nice. We killed it again but with Tanks doing 30k dps and 11 seconds afte berzerk. Cool ... not.

I find it amusing that someone on the thread you show even use one of our wol to argue that 10M Hc bosses are still doable. We killed HC Garajal again something like 2 days ago so the nerf wasn't here, but I really wonder if the boss is doable now. 10M Hc Garajal is gonna be tough, touhger than he was already.

And I really doubt we will be able to kill Will of the Emperors Hc again, we killed it on berzerk and with the vengeance nerf I don't see our Feral having enough vengeance to heal himself to full between sparks.

HC Bosses are balanced around tank doing alot of dps, nerfing vengeance is "understandable" and i'd say I foresaw it but you can't just nerf vengeance like this while some bosses require this amount of vengeance to be killed.

That coming from a tank curently sitting at 6/6 HC
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:34 pm

My 270k DPS #4 Stone Guards (25H) parse suggests it wasn't a change to Vengeance.

Best theory I've seen so far is that it was a change to specific boss abilities (primarily the 4 kings encounter?).
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Cema » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:40 pm

Vengeance was quite low on Elegon Hc too I'd say. Unfortunately WoL didn't work for us tonight so I got no numbers. :shock:

I'm not playing enough to say whether it is only related to 1 or 2 bosses or not. login, raid, pull hc boss, kill, logout :D
Last edited by Cema on Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Treck » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:45 pm

There still hasnt been any word from Blizzard what this hotfix really is about, but Ive noticed no real differance while tanking.
The only differance is excessive gain of vengeance with heavy CD usage on oneshot abilities.
They likely put something into place that makes you gain a maximum of 100k vengeance per attack or something to fix the spirit kings "abuse".
Call it what you will but if there was a way for any dps to gain 4 times his normal dps for 15sec, you would for sure see a fix pretty fast.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Bellanka » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:34 am

Treck wrote:There still hasnt been any word from Blizzard what this hotfix really is about, but Ive noticed no real differance while tanking.
The only differance is excessive gain of vengeance with heavy CD usage on oneshot abilities.
They likely put something into place that makes you gain a maximum of 100k vengeance per attack or something to fix the spirit kings "abuse".
Call it what you will but if there was a way for any dps to gain 4 times his normal dps for 15sec, you would for sure see a fix pretty fast.


^ this

This was never an intended mechanic. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluded.

My vengeance in every other fight is fine.

The low DPS at the start from Spirit Kings is part of the fight. Qiang doesn't have any normal melee that I can see. All his damage is spread out amongst the raid and in annihilates. You can still get a boost to vengeance by eating the Annihilate or eating one of his AoE strikes alone, and you should. I went from 18ishk to doing 50k+ consistently after the hotfix by doing exactly what I had been doing previously. I'll still pop AD and eat a Marching Orders throughout the fight to sustain that, as well.

But you can't honestly say that stacking tanks in what is obviously a one tank fight and having those tanks have specific abilities that out-DPS entire classes was not broken. When Execution Sentence does more damage than your actual DPS there IS a problem.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Worldie » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:51 am

Our tank's DPS looked normal this whole reset on all fights.

I'm with theck on this one: they probably just put something in place to avoid retarded gains of vengeance through soaking abilities you aren't intended to soak.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fetzie » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:11 am

Didn't they say that overkill damage doesn't count for Vengeance any more? Pretty sure I saw a bluepost linked on MMO-C.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Treck » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:26 pm

Vengeance still works fine, whatever fix they did, it was purely for insane big hits.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Treck » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:27 pm

Pyrea wrote:Didn't they say that overkill damage doesn't count for Vengeance any more? Pretty sure I saw a bluepost linked on MMO-C.

It didnt before either.
But AD saved you from dying, while you used every available CD to mitigate the damage, the overkill damage would not give vengeance, but the mitigated damage that you take before AD kicks in gave you 600k vengeance.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fetzie » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:58 pm

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status ... 3961555968

Saku ‏@Sakurako_00

@Ghostcrawler So, why change vengeance in the middle of progression? It makes a huge difference

Reply:

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler

@Sakurako_00 It was bugged and causing too much tank damage.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Treck » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:05 pm

Like I said earlier, If theres a bug with a DPS class able to do insane damage (like spellstealing before garajal) they usually fix it, mid progress.
Maybe they might change the HP of spirit kings (10man hc if that would be the case) to make up for it, but its a bug, its been working forever but not really been important before due to this is first tier of progress without a cap.

Im still interested in seeing how they changed it.
Doing some insane pulls on challenge modes confirms you can still reach way past 100k vengeance without problems, if theres a cap its above 170k atleast.
But soaking annihilate or Blood lord, only gives you 120k vengeance or so, meaning its some sort of fix for single attacks.
My bet is maximum of 100k vengeance per hit or smth.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby theckhd » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:52 pm

Pyrea wrote:Didn't they say that overkill damage doesn't count for Vengeance any more? Pretty sure I saw a bluepost linked on MMO-C.

Yes, they did.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/294 ... ts-TCG-Art

Vengeance now ignores overkill damage.


That was Sept 28th though. My guess is that their original hotfix wasn't working quite properly, so they applied another hotfix to get it right.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Skye1013 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:36 pm

Not sure what was going on yesterday, but my charsheet ilvl went from 463/466 to 433/450 without me having changed any gear. It was apparently just a charsheet thing, as I was still able to queue for LFR.

Also, my cloak (Shado-pan VP cloak) suddenly changed from Honored rep to Revered (which I don't have the rep to buy/equip) during the same time. So that might have been part of the ilvl issue. No clue if I was still getting the stats from it, because I didn't want to remove it and not be able to equip it again.

Everything was back to normal about 30 minutes later.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby PsiVen » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:07 pm

Sounds like a cache glitch. I think my client still shows the VP Honored items as requiring Revered.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:29 pm

PsiVen wrote:Sounds like a cache glitch. I think my client still shows the VP Honored items as requiring Revered.

Could be. I had just installed NPCScan and I was hunting rares at the time. I had deleted my cache folder to start out fresh, so possibly related.
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