Politics (formerly Election 2012)

[Klaudandus]

It seemed to me that no one actually answered a question. Take the women's issues for example, the question was about equal pay, not equal opportunities.

I'm amused how Obama touched on the Romney flip flopping meme... "You were for oil before you were against it."

Just like he was for tax cuts for 1% before he was against it?

[Brekkie]

It seemed to me that no one actually answered a question. Take the women's issues for example, the question was about equal pay, not equal opportunities.

Obama answered that question. He signed into law a bill addressing equal pay in the work place.

There were other questions he dodged, but that wasn't one of them.

[aureon]

It seemed to me that no one actually answered a question. Take the women's issues for example, the question was about equal pay, not equal opportunities.

I'm amused how Obama touched on the Romney flip flopping meme... "You were for oil before you were against it."

Well, i think that debates are more to present the two views to the public, and they do that.
Of course, to those who followed the campaigns closely, everything's old, but if you know nothing of the candidates programs, the debate should tell something.
like, 0 capital gains taxes! middle class, don't you rejoice?

[Klaudandus]

http://www.wisconsingazette.com/breakin ... emark.html

http://occupyamerica.crooksandliars.com ... rect-date-


And then there's this
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/ ... employers/

[Shoju]

Some Girls Rape Easy? What? I.... The explanation... WHAT?! Trying to explain it like that.... Ugh... that's just terrible.

Then, Arizona hating on hispanics? REALLY? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT?!

And the Romney tapes... Man.. What a fugging moron. Has no one told him that there are these new fangled devices out there that can CAPTURE YOUR WORDS! IT'S VOODOO I TELL YOU!

[Dantriges]

Wow seems to me that the current republican candidate isn´t really aware how due democratic process works. Can´t be that these new americans or the poor actually get a vote...

To phrase it a bit sarcastic. Next time the corporations turn in the votes for their employees. They count them and cast one vote after the ballot. Or well just turn in their vote and scrap all this voting thing. We have to cut the deficit.

[Skye1013]

And then there's this
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/ ... employers/

Was actually just coming here to post this link... seems you beat me to the punch.

[Klaudandus]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/17/c ... -question/
There's no republican war on women, eh?

[Delphineas]

Koch brothers:"If we elect candidates who want to spend hundreds of billions in borrowed money on costly new subsidies for a few favored cronies

Wiat, what? my brain just blew a logic circuit.

[Brekkie]

I like how Ann Romney went on The View and equated going on Mormon missions to France, England, Australia, and Chile with serving in the military and deploying to a combat zone.

"They are just different ways of serving."

No they are freaking NOT.

[Malthrax]

My give-a-crap-o-meter is pegging an all time low, guys & gals. You've got to do better - less rhetoric, more substance.

[Melathys]

It seemed to me that no one actually answered a question. Take the women's issues for example, the question was about equal pay, not equal opportunities.

Obama answered that question. He signed into law a bill addressing equal pay in the work place.

There were other questions he dodged, but that wasn't one of them.

“In what new ways do you intend to rectify inequalities in the workplace? Specifically regarding females making only 72 percent of what their male counterparts earn.”

I haven't gone back to listen to the debate, but I still don't think he answered the question. If he did, it was very quickly done after which he went on to talk about everything but the question.

[Delphineas]

Am I the only one who ISN'T offended by Roger Rivard's "Some women rape so easy." comment? It sure seems so, or maybe I'm one of the few who read the context.
OTOH, I look at it more from the lens that women get raped, men enjoy it bullshit. I think this could be spun to showcase how women largely just have to say it's rape and it's rape, whereas there is social stigma against men admitting the same, and even no law against said acts.

Course, I have a strong sense of fair play, which has gotten me in trouble before.

[Brekkie]

It seemed to me that no one actually answered a question. Take the women's issues for example, the question was about equal pay, not equal opportunities.

Obama answered that question. He signed into law a bill addressing equal pay in the work place.

There were other questions he dodged, but that wasn't one of them.

“In what new ways do you intend to rectify inequalities in the workplace? Specifically regarding females making only 72 percent of what their male counterparts earn.”

I haven't gone back to listen to the debate, but I still don't think he answered the question. If he did, it was very quickly done after which he went on to talk about everything but the question.

You know, part of me questions whether pay discrimination is really a thing, on a wide scale.

The statistic everyone quotes is that median full-time female pay is 77% of median full-time male pay.
But that is largely because some of the highest-paying fields like engineering, law, medicine, and finance are disproportionately populated by men, which throws off the median. Not because men and women are necessarily earning different amounts for the same equivalent job.

So the take-away is that more women need to go into the most lucrative fields of study, not that there is discrimination going on. The woman who asked the question is apparently a "pre-kindergarten teacher". Case in point.

[Darielle]

I think this could be spun to showcase how women largely just have to say it's rape and it's rape, whereas there is social stigma against men admitting the same, and even no law against said acts.

That's not really the case. Yes, in high-profile cases, allegations are enough to be pretty damaging and the media will light it up, but when you get out of the high-profile arena, women who are victims of rape go through hell to get any real traction on the justice end. It's as much a social stigma as a man trying to get traction for being the victim, insofar as how you would actually measure "social stigma".

But I'm not from the US, so I have no idea if you have kooky laws that may or may not be region-specific that alter that. But do bear in mind that a lot of outrage over the statement is about the context/timing of it from what I understand of people making a fuss about it.

[Dantriges]

No native speaker so I refrained from commenting on that part. The timing is obviously bad, to meddle in such an affair in such a way and well the sentence sounds quite obnoxious to me but I am not sure if I understand that sentence right.

[Paxen]

The statistic everyone quotes is that median full-time female pay is 77% of median full-time male pay.
But that is largely because some of the highest-paying fields like engineering, law, medicine, and finance are disproportionately populated by men, which throws off the median. Not because men and women are necessarily earning different amounts for the same equivalent job.

You're ignoring the effect that occupation seen as "women's work" see their pay drop over time. Teacher used to be a highly respected and highly paid profession, but after women have mostly taken over, where is the pay now?

[Malthrax]

But I'm not from the US, so I have no idea if you have kooky laws that may or may not be region-specific that alter that. But do bear in mind that a lot of outrage over the statement is about the context/timing of it from what I understand of people making a fuss about it.

The context - he was referring back to something his father told him when he was a boy.

The timing - he said it about eight months ago, and it resurfaced recently as a result of partisan dirt-digging.

A state representative is drawing heat for saying that his father had told him when he was young that "some girls rape easy" as a way to warn him that a woman could agree to sex but then later claim that it wasn't consensual.

Freshman Rep. Roger Rivard (R-Rice Lake) in December [2011] discussed a case with the Chetek Alert newspaper in which a 17-year-old high school senior was charged with sexual assault for having sex with an underage girl in the school's band room.

- http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolit ... 87961.html


IF what he said was that damning, where was the nationwide outrage in December of last year?

[Klaudandus]

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress ... n-20120711

Here, how women are paid as House and Senate staff. Those working for republicans earn a lot less than men in the same position. Yeah, dems also fall behind, but not as much as reps

[Shoju]

Am I the only one who ISN'T offended by Roger Rivard's "Some women rape so easy." comment? It sure seems so, or maybe I'm one of the few who read the context.
OTOH, I look at it more from the lens that women get raped, men enjoy it bullshit. I think this could be spun to showcase how women largely just have to say it's rape and it's rape, whereas there is social stigma against men admitting the same, and even no law against said acts.

Course, I have a strong sense of fair play, which has gotten me in trouble before.

I have a teenage son. One of his friends just found himself in this very type of situation. Never in my wildest dreams would I have said "Some Girls Rape Easy" when explaining it all to him. That's just a really shitty way to say something.

And then... He is now an old man. You should have the forethought to realize that if you say something stupid like "Some Girls Rape Easy" you are looking at a storm of idiocy.

You can say "Well, he's just quoting his even older father"

Sure he was. But we have progressed as a society. There are kinds of things that even my grandparents said that I certainly wouldn't repeat in front of a reporter while I'm running for public office. That's just dumb, like I said. I'm not saying that he was making light of rape, I'm saying that he should have chosen not to use such an obviously "old" statement.

[Shoju]

Am I the only one who ISN'T offended by Roger Rivard's "Some women rape so easy." comment? It sure seems so, or maybe I'm one of the few who read the context.
OTOH, I look at it more from the lens that women get raped, men enjoy it bullshit. I think this could be spun to showcase how women largely just have to say it's rape and it's rape, whereas there is social stigma against men admitting the same, and even no law against said acts.

Course, I have a strong sense of fair play, which has gotten me in trouble before.

I have a teenage son. One of his friends just found himself in this very type of situation. Never in my wildest dreams would I have said "Some Girls Rape Easy" when explaining it all to him. That's just a really shitty way to say something.

And then... He is now an old man. You should have the forethought to realize that if you say something stupid like "Some Girls Rape Easy" you are looking at a storm of idiocy.

You can say "Well, he's just quoting his even older father"

Sure he was. But we have progressed as a society. There are kinds of things that even my grandparents said that I certainly wouldn't repeat in front of a reporter while I'm running for public office. That's just dumb, like I said. I'm not saying that he was making light of rape, I'm saying that he should have chosen not to use such an obviously "old" statement.

IF what he said was that damning, where was the nationwide outrage in December of last year?

Because, as we learned with Romen Noodles' 47% comment, sometimes things are slow to propagate, even in the age of the interwebz.

[Brekkie]

The statistic everyone quotes is that median full-time female pay is 77% of median full-time male pay.
But that is largely because some of the highest-paying fields like engineering, law, medicine, and finance are disproportionately populated by men, which throws off the median. Not because men and women are necessarily earning different amounts for the same equivalent job.

You're ignoring the effect that occupation seen as "women's work" see their pay drop over time. Teacher used to be a highly respected and highly paid profession, but after women have mostly taken over, where is the pay now?

I don't find convincing the idea that there is somehow CAUSATION here. I think that is highly questionable logic.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress-legacy/how-congressional-republicans-and-democrats-pay-women-20120711

Here, how women are paid as House and Senate staff. Those working for republicans earn a lot less than men in the same position. Yeah, dems also fall behind, but not as much as reps

This, however, is decent data.
I accept that there is clearly a discrepancy.

[Paxen]

I don't find convincing the idea that there is somehow CAUSATION here. I think that is highly questionable logic.

Why not? You just agreed that women working for congressmen do in fact get paid less for the exact same job as male staffers. Why would not the same effect work on teacher's salaries as the profession became more and more dominated by women?

[Delphineas]

I don't find convincing the idea that there is somehow CAUSATION here. I think that is highly questionable logic.

Why not? You just agreed that women working for congressmen do in fact get paid less for the exact same job as male staffers. Why would not the same effect work on teacher's salaries as the profession became more and more dominated by women?

One is a snapshot. The other is 2 just points of data, without accounting for other possible factors.

[Skye1013]

Are male teachers getting paid more than female teachers? Or did the salary for teachers as a whole drop?