Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby econ21 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:04 pm

I'll be curious to see how our damage has changed moving from SoT to SoI: are the buffs to AS and HW sufficient to keep it steady or have we been nerfed?

In the same vein, would the simulations you have done allow us to compare our damage under the Cata mechanics with MoP mechanics? I feel our "baseline" damage with no vengeance got hit hard but am not sure if that is just QQing. I guess the issue in terms of whether you can easily quantify this is whether you ever used the same gear set in your Cata Matlab and MoP Matlab simulations. You have numbers for both systems, but I fear you never used a common gear set in the two simulations.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:20 pm

I have results, but it's too late for me to start posting them now. I should be able to get the bulk of them posted tomorrow though.

Short version: SoT is still better single-target than SoR. My initial estimates were correct, SoT now does between 3k and 4k damage at 100k Vengeance AP. SoI is still about 17k healing.

To give you some numbers to play with, here's a representative queue (which is also the highest-damage queue I've simmed so far):
Code: Select all
7.50% hit, 7.50% exp, SoT
|    |                                       |    DPS |   SHPS |    DPS |   SHPS | SS/EF | Empty |        |
| Q# | Priority                              | V=100k | V=100k |  V=50k |  V=50k |   Up% |  GCD% |  HPG/s |
| 15 | CS>J>AS>Cons>ES>HW>SotR               |  93100 |      0 |  57165 |      0 |   0.0 |   6.1 | 0.3948 |

7.50% hit, 7.50% exp, SoI
| 15 | CS>J>AS>Cons>ES>HW>SotR               |  89615 |  16885 |  55014 |   9920 |   0.0 |   6.1 | 0.3948 |

7.50% hit, 7.50% exp, SoR
| 15 | CS>J>AS>Cons>ES>HW>SotR               |  91254 |      0 |  56151 |      0 |   0.0 |   6.1 | 0.3948 |

As you can see, SoT is about 3500 damage up on SoI and 1850 damage ahead of SoR. I suspect that the transition from SoT to SoR will be 3 targets based on the following logic: SoR is (91254-89615)=1639 DPS for a single target, and should scale linearly. So adding a second target only gives it an additional 1639 DPS, which isn't enough to catch up to SoT (which was 1850 DPS ahead). That's assuming you can't stack Censure on both targets, which isn't necessarily true. Rule of thumb will probably be that SoT/Censure will be ahead for 3-4 targets if you can keep Censure rolling on all of them, but beyond that it will likely fall behind no matter what.

If you scroll up, you'll see that queue #15 was doing 96.3k DPS before the patch, and there were tweaks we could make to push that up to 96.5k. So we've lost about 3k DPS from this change if we stick with SoT. Note, however, that with HW being buffed so much it should take precedence over Cons against a single target. I need to program in a few more queues to see what our new "max DPS" rotation is. It's probably CS>J>AS>HW>Cons>ES>SotR, but ES might move around a bit in there.

Glyph of the Battle Healer is around 5200 healing per second to a nearby target. I tanked some heroics tonight using SoI and GoBH, and it did a reasonably good amount of healing. It's hard to say though, because I was running with a resto druid, so I was probably just sniping his HoTs.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby UFTimmy » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:42 pm

I need to program in a few more queues to see what our new "max DPS" rotation is. It's probably CS>J>AS>HW>Cons>ES>SotR, but ES might move around a bit in there


Where does HoW fit in there? Between HW and Cons?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:57 pm

Either at the top or between HW and Cons. Again, more details to come tomorrow (didn't have as much time as I thought I would today).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby daishan » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:09 am

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I was wondering how SoI and the Battle Healer glyph scale with stats.
My guild will be trying Elagon on Sunday, I'm thinking of gearing for haste for more dps and was wondering how much extra healing me and the raid would get?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fetzie » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:17 am

Both scale (indirectly) with your attack power.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby daishan » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:41 am

Thx not quite what i was trying to ask, don't think I made a very good job of explaining myself :roll:
Was more trying to find out how much extra healing I'd get from re forging exp>haste down from hard cap to soft cap, and how much Battle Healer might off set total raid healing needed if I went for haste at the expense of mastery.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:51 pm

Not enough information to answer that question. 10- or 25-man? How much average Vengeance AP do tanks have on Elegon? How many in melee range, what sort of time-on-target, etc.? There's just too many variables to give you a precise answer yet.

I've updated everything through the Stat sim. That'll be coming in a few hours, along with the updated Weapon post.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby daishan » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:44 pm

Ye sry, guess it is bit of a stretch wanting numbers without giving data.
I've not had chance to pull it yet so I'm not sure on Vengeance AP, we'll probably have myself and 4 others in melee range.
I'm just trying to get a feel for if haste will have a noticeable impact on SoI self healing and Battle Healer raid healing.
I'll try to take note of how much vengeance I get on the attempts we have on Sunday.
After reading your latest blog I think I'll be gearing for haste anyway regardless of it's effect on heals, as we have a couple of dps that are slacking atm so we need all we can get.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby aresius » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:02 pm

Due to the recent confirmation on the importance of hit/expertise, maybe its advisable to swap around some of the recomended gemming? I personaly see the Guardian Amethyst (exp/stam) as a much better gem then the Defender (parry/stam).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:12 pm

There is no "recommended gemming."
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby gibborim » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:38 pm

It looks like they are trying to close the gap between mitigation gearing and avoidance gearing a bit. A hotfix is being added that gives you vengeance when a hit is avoided rather than just refreshing the timer.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:05 am

That change is merely to give you some vengeance if you have an unlucky avoidance streak off the pull.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:16 am

Yeah, that's mostly to smooth out Vengeance so that you can't get stuck at low (or high) values due to a string of avoids. It has exactly 0 impact on gearing mitigation versus avoidance.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Petrus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:44 am

What are your thoughts on Glyph of Final Wrath? I tried it out and under 20% health between the wrath spells (Holy Wrath and Hammer of Wrath), there's some ridiculous damage going out especially with high vengeance. I'm currently using Final Wrath, Glyph of Battle Healer, and I swap between Glyphs of Holy Wrath and Focused Shield depending on whether or not I'm doing single-target stuff (i.e. Feng, Gara'jal, Galleon) or multitarget (heroics, etc.). I'm thinking something like Stone Guards might be a good place to use Double Jeopardy if you can manage it. The only other good option that I see is Alabaster Shield and that feels mediocre by comparison.

Disclaimer: I haven't done much at all (some tries on Feng and Gara'jal with a friendly guild) in Mogu'shan Vaults so I'm not sure how viable this stuff is in there yet. We start raiding next week when we have enough 90s.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Gab » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:46 pm

For Elegon, because of the stacking debuff he receives through out the fight and higher vengeance than earlier phases Final Wrath seemed fantastic.

I think it's also pretty good on Will. Unless your dps is insane, or you two heal it, then most kills will probably happen during the 4th Titan Gas with 25% damage buff and higher than normal vengeance.

On fights where the mechanics are not helping to boost up the execute range portion of the fight it's not as effective as Alabaster Shield or Focused Shield. But can certainly help you get through those "soft enrage" types of fights.

Theck wrote:Focused Shield and Alabaster Shield are your two best DPS glyphs


Theck wrote:Final Wrath is probably our next-highest DPS glyph thanks to its significant benefit in Execute range.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Petrus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:57 pm

Ahh I didn't realize he'd edited the initial posts yet - I couldn't get here for a few days, so I hadn't checked that.

Edit: I will still say this about the glyphs: Even if Alabaster Shield is mathematically a DPS increase, it still feels pretty crappy. It's passive, and I understand that, but I rarely-if-ever notice the DPS increase from it, and would rather use Final Wrath all the time and just prioritize that. Maybe I'll get used to it, though. I'll have to try using it some more in place of HoWrath when there's no elementals around to stun, going BH/FW/Alabaster Shield.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:04 am

At the risk of sounding like a total retard, how much more damage intake do we take with soft cap exp vis a vis hard cap?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:09 pm

Rough estimate: about 5% (relative, not absolute).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Durability » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:41 pm

Re weapon choice: Picked up the Horseman's blade today, the use effect damage is negligible - they did a total of less than 4k damage on the boss dummy over their entire duration. That's damage, not dps.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:09 pm

Isn't that an agility weapon anyway? Or was I looking at something else in atlasloot...
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:56 pm

but with desirable hit and exp
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:23 pm

And there aren't any str weapons with hit/exp/mastery/haste that would be preferable? (crossing threads a little, since someone mentioned in another thread that HH Slicer is a contender for BiS... not sure how much truth is behind it.)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Sagara » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:06 pm

According to the stat values Theck roughly estimated, the HH sword is ABOVE LFR Elegon's axe, but behind the other two LFR weapons and all three normal weapons.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:20 am

What I've been wondering is if they swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction when they said they wanted us to care more about hit/exp than we had in the past.
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