Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

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Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby Beeswax » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:35 am

I haven't been running a mainhand enchant up to this point, but now that i have Ook's slicer, I started to investgate the enchants.

Which is the correct one, I persoanlly can see advantages for each...

Enchant Weapon - Colossus \\ 7.5k mini bubble \\ with SoL and GotBH wouldn;t this be wasted?

Enchant Weapon - Windsong \\ 1.5k Mastery proc \\ with DM on mastery, would this be wasted itemization?

Enchant Weapon - River's Song \\ 1.6k dodge proc \\ I was never a fan on windwalk in cata, due to DM. Isn't the proc on a stat that suffers from DM wasted itemization?
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby jere » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:49 am

I don't think a mini bubble is ever wasted.

On Windsong: Someone in a different thread was very adamant that the proc randomly chooses between the stats so that you aren't guaranteed to get mastery each time. I haven't ever verified that myself, but if true, then that would diminish the goodness of the enchant as 1/3 times you would get crit. Remember that haste is also nice for us now.

By DM, do you perhaps mean DR (Diminishing Returns)? I don't think DR makes the itemization worthless, but it is something you have to consider based on your gear.

Personally I go for the mini bubble, but that is without any math to back it up as being the best. I just prefer that style of enchant over the dodge.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby daishan » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:08 am

Windsong is completely random 1/3 chance of getting mast, haste, or crit.
I started out with colossus looking at my logs it never ended up as over heal, may of pushed some of the healers heals into over heal. I've gone windsong now I think it's slightly better than colossus but have no numbers to back that up.
I don't think I'll be changing to river's song as I'm gearing towards haste and mastery both of which de-value avoidance, plus never have liked avoidance procs avoidance clickies are bad enough imo.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby degre » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:37 am

Beeswax wrote:I haven't been running a mainhand enchant up to this point, but now that i have Ook's slicer, I started to investgate the enchants.

Which is the correct one, I persoanlly can see advantages for each...

Enchant Weapon - Colossus \\ 7.5k mini bubble \\ with SoL and GotBH wouldn;t this be wasted?

Enchant Weapon - Windsong \\ 1.5k Mastery proc \\ with DM on mastery, would this be wasted itemization?

Enchant Weapon - River's Song \\ 1.6k dodge proc \\ I was never a fan on windwalk in cata, due to DM. Isn't the proc on a stat that suffers from DM wasted itemization?

I ended up not being a great fan of Windwalk myself in Cata as I felt that once hit CTC cap extra dodge was a waste, on the other hand, here we have no CTC cap in sight and found River's Song quite interesting, I just don't want to go for it yet as Windsong is the only one that gives a mix of offence and defence, so being that so far we've had issues with enrage timers and my deaths could have probably not been avoided by extra dodge as were mostly caused by issues in the learning process, I'd go for extra dps with a side of defence.

jere wrote:On Windsong: Someone in a different thread was very adamant that the proc randomly chooses between the stats so that you aren't guaranteed to get mastery each time. I haven't ever verified that myself, but if true, then that would diminish the goodness of the enchant as 1/3 times you would get crit. Remember that haste is also nice for us now.

Seems to be the case, checked a few logs and here is what I've seen:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/dy06 ... etails/25/
Crit 45
Haste 50
Mastery 37

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tzub ... etails/15/
Crit 28
Haste 33
Mastery 36

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o3f3 ... details/7/
Crit 46
Haste 58
Mastery 53

Is not much data, but I bet that adding more samples would probably balance out at a third each.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby Petrus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:33 am

I went with Windsong for now but I do like River's Song (if only for the name/coloring) and hope it may catch up in the long run, but Colossus may be the best of the three. Windsong is a 2/3 chance to get some useful stat (both haste and mastery are useful), so it is good for low content (heroics, etc) where your survivability isn't as much in question and you can worry more about DPS.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby daishan » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:03 am

Just remembered about a 4th option for us the Living Steel Weapon Chain 200 exp, as 1/3rd of the Windsong procs are wasted for us I think 200 exp will average out to a similar value and no risk of it not been there when you really want it.

Edit: doing some rough (probably bad) napkin maths WS looks to have about a 10% up time on each of the procs
1500*(0.1+0.1)=300
On average we look to get 300 of a useful stat from WS vs 200 exp all the time from the weapon chain.
I think I'll stick with WS for now but the weapon chain looks like a good option if you dislike proc based enchants.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby Hespherus » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:35 am

Am i the only one considering Dancing steel? 1650 strength for 12 seconds every minute? Thats roughly 1600 parry rating, plus more dps/healing and absorbs from sacred shield if refreshed during that window.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby daishan » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:26 am

I'd take dancing steel over river's song, though don't forget on harder hitting bosses AP from strength is a relatively small contribution of our total AP.
DS averages out to 320 strength I seem to remember on Theck's 100k veng graphs strength was worth half what exp was, so if you need the exp the weapon chain could be more dps if nothing else. DS will probably get you more dps in a 10 man with the lower veng.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby daishan » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:13 pm

Blizz are changing how Windsong and Elemental Force proc.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6893549789
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby Extermi » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:59 pm

daishan wrote:I'd take dancing steel over river's song, though don't forget on harder hitting bosses AP from strength is a relatively small contribution of our total AP.
DS averages out to 320 strength I seem to remember on Theck's 100k veng graphs strength was worth half what exp was, so if you need the exp the weapon chain could be more dps if nothing else. DS will probably get you more dps in a 10 man with the lower veng.


When you calculate like this you should take into account that as you will be easily enchanting/ reforging at least to soft cap anyway, you rather have a choice between strength against the next best stat (e.g. haste) you would then forge into, making strength the winner in many cases. especially at lower vengeance

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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby Hespherus » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:17 am

Is there any general consensus yet? Are there any big difference between the enchants that would really warrant the sole use of one of them.

I personally feel like none is really that important for us and im beginning to like the idea of Windsong better than Colossus/River Song/Dancing steel.

Colossus will give me 3 ppm of 1% or less of my HP(im already at almost 700k hp buffed). Riversong, is just avoidance and then Dancing steel which is like second best for me, at high levels of vengeance is just a tiny fraction of your dps and the avoidance you get is also negligeable.

Thoughts? Any differences between 10s and 25s?
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby Gab » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:08 am

I have been thinking the same thing.

Really depending on how the new RPPM works out Windsong could be really strong for us especially at higher gear levels. If your gearing strategy is Hit/Exp > Haste > Mastery or even Hit/Exp > Haste = Mastery then the increased procs will make it even better as we get more haste.

The extra absorbs from Collusus are nice and all but the amount of the absorb is going to quickly be worth less and less as bosses do more damage. I think Windsong is definitely worth considering since both the haste and mastery procs will increase damage reduction as damage taken increases.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby Petrus » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:39 pm

Now that I know about the weapon chain, I'll almost certainly go for that.

I'm also considering doing another gear guide, though it'll take time I won't have for another week or so, but that enchant looks great.
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby Schroom » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:00 am

the good thing about Winsdong is, that it is not ONE procc but three proccs that each proccs independently from each other. so you have the same ppm for mastery, haste and for crit.

also you can have several proccs at the same time. in example mastery and haste. or mastery and crit and so on. so yeah crit only helps a little bit on dps. but the other 2 are amazing for defense. Also as one procc doesn't lock the other, 2/3 is simply not true.

you have 8 states.

(1 = active 0 = inactive)

Code: Select all
mastery haste crit
0         0     0
0         0     1
0         1     0
0         1     1
1         0     0
1         0     1
1         1     0
1         1     1



so for defense only the crit part does not interest us, which gives us still 4 very useful and a 5th and 6th very powerful state and only 2 aren't useful for defense but still one of those gives us some dps.


this makes windsong the most powerful enchants for paladin tanks IMHO
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Re: Weapon enchant in 5.0.4

Postby superworm » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:44 am

I don't know paladins, but I remember that some calculation about monks have shown that colossus is the best for brewmaster tanks. I'm currently going with colossus and am pretty content with it. Windsong is also a good choice.
And one need to consider the expenses. River's song and dancing steel is way too expensive for only negligible, if any at all, improvement, so that's definitely meh. Currently Colossus and Windsong both sells around 100g on my server and actually can be crafted by my alt, while the other two requires reputation to learn the recipe.
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