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Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Treck » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:30 am

I honestly dont mind the seal change that much, and honestly when its ticking for 80k in raids, its a bit silly.
It should then still tick for about 20k in the same situation tho.
But I already liked the battle healer glyph, and now it got a lot more usefull.

Also, Wrath is pretty sick, its hitting for 35k without any buffs, easily our highest damagedealer, no clue how it scales tho, maybe its meant to be THE dps you do when offtanking? :P
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:35 am

Wrath is critting for 120k on my ret... it's quite impressive °_°
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Treck » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:02 am

Maybe protpaladins in dps gear would outdps the raid in heavy aoe fights? :P
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fetzie » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:42 am

The following attacks proc Battle Healer:

Melee Swing (obviously)
Crusader Strike
Hammer of the righteous (also splash damage effect)
Shield of the Righteous

Judgement, Avenger's Shield, Holy Wrath, Consecrate and Hammer of Wrath do NOT proc Battle Healer.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fenris » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:30 am

I'm puzzled by the sudden statement that using Seal of Insight is intended.

I feel they simply made it up on the spot.SoT was targeted for a nerf and they had no real reason to give us for it so.....

Seembs like they weren't happy with tanks gaining a extra survivability cooldown with Symbiosis. Oh well I can remove Symbiosis from my protection bars I guess which are already enough crowded as it is.

I guess.One extra cd could actually have been a problem to balance around.

BUT,that said,at least the other tanks get crap they can use while tanking :?
Last edited by Fenris on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:32 am

Treck wrote:Maybe protpaladins in dps gear would outdps the raid in heavy aoe fights? :P

This before it's nerfed to the ground!
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:50 am

Sagara wrote:Quick follow-up. I've looked back at theck's numbers from his MATLAB thread. If I'm not mistaken, AS and HW have taken over Cons for single target.

I'm mighty curious about what our resident headache lord will be able to infer.

Extra EDIT: Just saw theck's latest tweet. :lol: At least his opinion on the matter will be clear!


I'm going to run the numbers this morning. AS and HW should become a lot more desirable for single-target, possibly even bumping Cons to the back of the queue. We'll know for sure soon.

As far as SoI, I've always hated SoI tanking. Especially given how crappy SoI is - it's a random proc (15 PPM), so it's not reliable and generally just turns into overheal. The 10% spell haste doesn't affect Sanctity of Battle, but does affect Eternal Flame and Sacred Shield (so you'll eke out another tick on SS, probably). The 5% healing buff affects WoG and EF (and probably FoL), but not our L90 talents.

It's all around "meh." I'd rather do damage, but now they made the option far less interesting. That said, if I recall correctly it was about a ~17k DPS to ~17k HPS trade before the nerf (at 100k Veng), so now it'll be about 3.4k DPS. I'll math out whether SoR beats it out for single-target DPS later today as well (christ I hope not, but this seems like such a haphazard and ill-thought-out balancing tweak that it might be).
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fenris » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:12 am

Sigh....

Just started the daily grind,censure hits for 880-900,seal procs at 200-230

Yay....

I have this feeling that hp-into-WoG saved using SoI will end up being more dps than that >.<
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:20 am

econ21 wrote:
Blizzard wrote:When using Seal of Truth, their damage was too high.


Ouch. Doing dailies, I feel like I've been hitting mobs with a wooden spoon. Is it now going to be a foam bat?

Seriously. This is *almost* as bad as doing Isle of Quel'Danas dailies back in BC. I haven't felt this weak at killing shit as prot in a very, very long time.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Shoju » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:46 am

Nikachelle wrote:
econ21 wrote:
Blizzard wrote:When using Seal of Truth, their damage was too high.


Ouch. Doing dailies, I feel like I've been hitting mobs with a wooden spoon. Is it now going to be a foam bat?

Seriously. This is *almost* as bad as doing Isle of Quel'Danas dailies back in BC. I haven't felt this weak at killing shit as prot in a very, very long time.


I did my dailies back then in a full set of spellpower gear. I even went and picked up "Of the Sorcerer" pieces to fill out the set in the very beginning until I had a nice set of full on spellpower plate from raiding. It made doing IQD tolerable.

I'm looking through the changes, and with my limited knowledge, I'm unsure why this type of gap wasn't changed before now?
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:50 am

Shoju wrote:I'm looking through the changes, and with my limited knowledge, I'm unsure why this type of gap wasn't changed before now?

Because the devs (or at least that CM) are feeding us a line of bullshit. SoI was never the "intended" tanking seal, otherwise their tuning would have caught this sort of error earlier.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Shoju » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:53 am

theckhd wrote:
Shoju wrote:I'm looking through the changes, and with my limited knowledge, I'm unsure why this type of gap wasn't changed before now?

Because the devs (or at least that CM) are feeding us a line of bullshit. SoI was never the "intended" tanking seal, otherwise their tuning would have caught this sort of error earlier.



Well, I can see that, but I mean Warrior Changes as well. If they were so far ahead on AoE damage, wouldn't that have shown through in beta?

And are DK's really "ok, a little ahead, but nothing terrible?"
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Fridmarr » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:54 am

Well to me it sounds like a matter of determining where you stand when not using insight relative to other tanks. If there's a big gap, then you may have a legitimate quality of life issue, otherwise I don't think blizzard is going to back off the hotfix.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:56 am

Shoju wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
econ21 wrote:
Ouch. Doing dailies, I feel like I've been hitting mobs with a wooden spoon. Is it now going to be a foam bat?

Seriously. This is *almost* as bad as doing Isle of Quel'Danas dailies back in BC. I haven't felt this weak at killing shit as prot in a very, very long time.


I did my dailies back then in a full set of spellpower gear. I even went and picked up "Of the Sorcerer" pieces to fill out the set in the very beginning until I had a nice set of full on spellpower plate from raiding. It made doing IQD tolerable.

Yeah, I remember discovering that very late into doing my daily grind.
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Re: Hotfixes...hotfixes...Always the hotfixes

Postby econ21 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:58 am

Nikachelle wrote:This is *almost* as bad as doing Isle of Quel'Danas dailies back in BC.


Yep, that analogy was in the back of my mind too. I round up 3 mobs (if I am lucky) in the Golden Lotus dailies. I mash buttons frantically for pitiful damage. It's tedious beyond belief. The most interesting thing is watching to see whether the first to die will have respawned by the time I have killed the third. At least I found a use for our sad L87 ability - I blind the respawn in order to run away if my kill quota is filled.

I don't get the nerf to tanks soloing (and I suspect to healers - levelling holy paladins are suffering from no consecration/holy wrath AOE). You have a main spec - you want to play in that main spec. It's just not as much fun to have to switch spec to level, do dailies, to PvP etc. It's a quality of life issue and Blizzard just seems to be ignoring it. And as your Isle of Quel'Danas analogy shows - this is a backwards step. One of the most memorable quality of life improvements I recall in WoW was the Wrath patch that meant prot was finally decent for soloing.

Blizzard haven't explained why they nerfed tank damage without vengeance. It was presented as a quid pro quo for boosting their damage in 25 man raids, which is no comfort to me - a 10 man casual. The closest they came to a justification was saying that it was no fun seeing the tank top the damage meters in 5 mans. To which the rejoiner (aside from it being great fun for us tanks :lol: ) is that this only tended to happen while levelling. Decent dps in Cata five mans would comfortably out-dps us.
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