Rotation?

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Rotation?

Postby Thels » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:57 pm

Is there any detail on a Rotation to use for 5.x? Couldn't really find a lot of info about it.

Though I'm also guessing it's becoming less and less of a Rotation, and more and more like the Ret system, where different factors determine which button to push next.

Not entirely sure, though. Had an absence of about a year and a half, so I'm busy trying to catch up on stuff and getting ready for MoP.
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Re: Rotation?

Postby econ21 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:44 am

Theckhd's round up of 5.0.4 on his blog is probably the best link for this at the moment:

http://sacredduty.net/2012/08/27/patch-5-0-4-round-up/

I still think of Prot as a rotation and Ret as a priority list, but am not sure the two things are really that distinct. The prot rotation does not "feel" that different from what came before. The biggest change IMO is that ShotR is off the GCD and primarily defensive, rather than offensive. Alternatively, you can use your holy power for WoG - which once again has no CD - if you need healing fast.
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Re: Rotation?

Postby Thels » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:43 am

From what I can see, that comes down to a priority list:

Crusader Strike
Judgement
Avenger's Shield
Consecration
Holy Wrath
<Squeeze Sacred Shield in somewhere.>

I guess the duration of the Tier 6 talents make them situational rather than part of the priority list.

That makes it feel a lot like how Ret works (or at least worked, I haven't checked into 5.x Ret rotation yet). Not that that's bad. I actually like it. Pressing the same buttons over and over again a la WotLK was quite boring.

I also like how ShoR SotR is now off the GCD, making it more of a small save button that can be used anywhere between 3 and 5 HP, to give us some choices, rather than making it a forced button to click. Making WoG occasionally useful is also awesome. :)

The new rotation is something I gotta get into my fingers, but I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks for the link!
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Re: Rotation?

Postby Thels » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:20 pm

Where would hammer of wrath come in, if at all?

EDIT: Never mind, found it.

As far as rotation, it should be pretty simple:
CS > J > AS > Cons > HoW > HW

Replace CS with HotR whenever you need to refresh Weakened Blows. If you want to slip SS in there, put it after AS. If you want more survivability, it would take precedence over Cons. If you want more DPS, I’d slip it behind Cons. If you put it behind HoW, you’ll have higher DPS during execute, but much lower uptime.

Ex: CS > J > AS > Cons > SS > HoW > HW
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Re: Rotation?

Postby Celyn » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:34 pm

From what i can see of the Matlab thread its something like this for maximum mitigation and damage:

1. Keeping Weaken blows up with Hammer of the Righteous
2. Shield of the Righteous
3 Crusade Strike
4. Judgement
5. Avenger's Shield during a Grand Crusader proc
6. Hammer of Wrath if usable
7. Consecration
8. Whatever Level 90 ability you choose
9. Avenger's Shield without a proc
10. Refreshing Sacred shield with 5 or less seconds left on the buff.
11. Holy Wrath

If you have a glyphed AS prioritization it over HoW.

viewtopic.php?p=718668#p718668

Cons hits hard enough that it's our go-to filler. In fact, it's a slight DPS increase (~200 DPS) to prioritize it above AS, at the cost of a little HP gain. It's not worth prioritizing above Judgment.
There seems to be a slight (~350 DPS) advantage to using CS>J>AS+>Cons>AS over CS>J>AS>Cons.


Thus why I have ASGrC over Cons.

Execution Sentence is the high-DPS talent option, and it gets prioritized above Holy Wrath and non-HP generating AS casts, but behind Consecration


Thats why i put level 90 where i did.

Hammer of Wrath hits like a truck. It hits harder than anything else in our arsenal except for glyphed AS, and it's got a very short cooldown. Maximum DPS puts this at the top of our priority queue (but costs us ~4% SotR uptime). In practice, putting it behind our HPG (CS>J>AS+>HoW) costs about 3k DPS, but doesn't cut into our HPG at all.


Thus why i have HoW as our highest number filler with Cons behind it and why i said to increase AS priority if its glyphed.

Sacred Shield has a minimal impact on DPS. It costs 1k-2k DPS to put it anywhere in the queue. My suggestion is to put it ahead of Holy Wrath, which costs ~200 DPS and should still give you a respectable 84% - 93% uptime depending on whether you're diligent about refreshing it during the last tick.


Thus i put SS over HW.
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Re: Rotation?

Postby Thels » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:36 am

Ah, thanks for your insight! :)

That seems to result in a slightly different rotation from the Blog.
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Re: Rotation?

Postby Celyn » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:02 am

Well according to the blog:

CS>J>AS+>Cons>ES>AS>HW>SotR,

which sacrifices none of our holy power generation (“AS+” means “AS only if Grand Crusader is active). That said, if we’re concerned about survivability, we’re also going to be keeping Sacred Shield active and applying Weakened Blows. There are a number of valid priority queues that accomplish this, but the most balanced in terms of survivability seems to be

^WB>CS>J>AS>Cons>SS[buffSS<5]>HW>SotR.

To clarify, “^WB” means “reapply Weakened Blows if it isn’t present,” and “SS[buffSS<5]” means “refresh Sacred Shield if the remaining duration is less than 5 seconds.” Putting Sacred Shield at this place in the queue costs us about 1k DPS for about 10k absorption per second and 93% Sacred Shield uptime, which is a fair trade. Bumping SS up any higher costs more DPS for only a small increase in coverage. Bumping it down below Holy Wrath reduces the DPS cost to 0, but also drops the uptime to about 74%. Your level 90 talent would slip in above or below Sacred Shield without having too large an effect on either DPS or SS uptime.

One final note about rotations: Hammer of Wrath hits like a truck, so it’s a DPS increase to put it at the front of the queue during Execute range. Your priority for max DPS will literally become HoW>CS>(everything else in whatever order you were using). However, note that doing so will put a dent in your holy power generation, SotR uptime, and SS uptime. As such, it’s hard to gauge exactly where to put HoW in the priority queue, because it’s up to each player to decide how much survivability they’re willing to sacrifice for it. The queues listed in the rotation sim post can help you get a feel for the magnitude of that trade-off and determine your comfort level.


Im just combining the two and moving SotR up in priority as its not on the GCD.

Of course i could be wrong =P
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Re: Rotation?

Postby Thels » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:38 am

For now I'm sticking with:

SW:J > CS/HotR > J > GC:AS > SS(less than 6 seconds remaining) > HoW > Cons > AS > HW > SS

I might move SS down as I find my survivability comfortable.
I also pop SotR whenever I'm at 5 HP or at 3-4 HP with BoG about to fall off.

What about AoE, though? Obviously HotR instead of CS. J still provides the necessary HP for survivability, so it's kept where it is? HoW will drop down the list, I assume, so would that be:

SW:J > HotR > J > GC:AS > SS(less than 6 seconds remaining) > Cons > AS > HW > HoW > SS
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Re: Rotation?

Postby xstratax » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:45 pm

HoW > Cons unless youre doing AoE
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Re: Rotation?

Postby Celyn » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:27 pm

What about AoE, though? Obviously HotR instead of CS. J still provides the necessary HP for survivability, so it's kept where it is? HoW will drop down the list, I assume, so would that be:


Well according to the Matlab thread they have not yet run sims on aoe yet but based on the ability damage:

Code: Select all
---50k Vengeance ---

| Ability |    Raw |    Dmg |    AoE |  Heal |
|         |        |        |   (4T) |       |
|      CS |  21143 |  18942 |      0 |     0 |
|    HotR |   3293 |   2951 |      0 |     0 |
|  HaNova |   8550 |   7716 |   7716 |     0 |
|       J |  54575 |  54655 |      0 |     0 |
|      AS |  63030 |  61664 |  41109 |     0 |
|    Cons |  73643 |  72047 |  72047 |     0 |
|      HW |  45337 |  44355 |  11089 |     0 |
|     HoW |  74154 |  73670 |      0 |     0 |
|    SotR |  56235 |  50381 |      0 |     0 |
|     WoG |  87359 |      0 |      0 | 88253 |
|      EF |  87359 |      0 |      0 | 88253 |
| EF(HoT) |   9022 |      0 |      0 |  9114 |
|      SS |  39203 |      0 |      0 | 39203 |
|     HPr |  81002 |  79247 |  79247 | 52514 |
|      LH | 145692 | 142534 | 142534 | 96955 |
|      ES | 279925 | 273858 |      0 |     0 |
|     SoT |   3085 |   3165 |      0 |     0 |
|     SoR |   1466 |   1504 |   1504 |     0 |
|     SoI |  19226 |      0 |      0 | 12497 |
| Censure |  21646 |  22206 |      0 |     0 |
|   Melee |  17331 |  14557 |      0 |     0 |

Code: Select all
---100k Vengeance ---

| Ability |    Raw |    Dmg |    AoE |   Heal |
|         |        |        |   (4T) |        |
|      CS |  30244 |  27095 |      0 |      0 |
|    HotR |   4749 |   4255 |      0 |      0 |
|  HaNova |  12330 |  11128 |  11128 |      0 |
|       J |  92438 |  92574 |      0 |      0 |
|      AS | 103980 | 101726 |  67817 |      0 |
|    Cons | 124673 | 121971 | 121971 |      0 |
|      HW |  74002 |  72398 |  18100 |      0 |
|     HoW | 124869 | 124053 |      0 |      0 |
|    SotR |  95106 |  85206 |      0 |      0 |
|     WoG | 135869 |      0 |      0 | 137260 |
|      EF | 135869 |      0 |      0 | 137260 |
| EF(HoT) |  14287 |      0 |      0 |  14433 |
|      SS |  62603 |      0 |      0 |  62603 |
|     HPr | 125984 | 123253 | 123253 |  81669 |
|      LH | 226584 | 221672 | 221672 | 150781 |
|      ES | 466909 | 456788 |      0 |      0 |
|     SoT |   4489 |   4605 |      0 |      0 |
|     SoR |   2114 |   2168 |   2168 |      0 |
|     SoI |  32726 |      0 |      0 |  21272 |
| Censure |  36451 |  37394 |      0 |      0 |
|   Melee |  25218 |  21182 |      0 |      0 |


It looks like to me its going to be something like:

1. Hammer of the righteous for buff
2. Shield of the Righteous
3. Consecration
4. Holy Prism/Light's Hammer
5. Avenger's Sheild
6. Hammer of wrath
7. Judgment
8. Hammer of the Righteous
9. Sacred Shield with 5 seconds or less to refresh
10.Holy Wrath

You would probably move HotR and HW up above HoW at the start for more snap aoe threat.

Sorry i have no clue how SW would affect it, but it is a single target spell so I dont THINK it would move up unless you need more mitigation from more SotR
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