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5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby knaughty » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:51 am

bldavis wrote:i am looking forward to this being updated! :)

First cut of major content is up - LF feedback.
Sagara wrote:There is something reassuring in seeing the giant Righteously Furious Tank try to FAQ us.

If you're as cute as your avatar, I'd furiously FAQ you anytime. The question is, can you tank it?
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Worldie » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:12 am

Hai guyse, teh sticky is in place.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby bldavis » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:02 am

looks great, saw a few typos and doubled up questions in what you have so far, cant wait for more!

(seal/blessing question was doubled, just a couple of minor typos)
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Nitro » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:59 am

Really awesome to have on of these from you again, really helped me out back in cata.
I would like to point out though that all paladins get 5 HoPo thanks to boundless conviction, not just the tanks
Keep it up
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Sagara » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:14 am

knaughty wrote:
bldavis wrote:i am looking forward to this being updated! :)

First cut of major content is up - LF feedback.
Sagara wrote:There is something reassuring in seeing the giant Righteously Furious Tank try to FAQ us.

If you're as cute as your avatar, I'd furiously FAQ you anytime. The question is, can you tank it?


Sorry brother, I'm a Lawful, Good, wed man. Wife'd say i'm cute, but I'm afraid you'd disagree :lol:
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby tuberon » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:29 am

Q: What's Holy Power?
A: Combo Points that stack on you instead of target. All paladins get up to three Holy Power points, then spend them on something nifty, Tankadins get 5, because we're cool in need of the ability to bank & spend on a less rigid timer that we lived with in Cataclysm.

Boundless Conviction is available to all 3 specs at level 85.

Looking good so far, man.
Warning: Above poster makes no claims to validity or sanity of said post.

Also... cake.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby econ21 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:43 am

Looking good. Minor suggestion:

knaughty wrote:...you hit the rest of your abilities as they're available, in this priority order:
...
[*]ShoR, so long as you have at least 3 HoPo (ideally 5)


You can cut this last item from the list, as ShoR is off the GCD, so does not compete with the filler "X" abilities in our rotation.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby knaughty » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:03 pm

tuberon wrote:Boundless Conviction is available to all 3 specs at level 85.
Looking good so far, man.

Thank you.
econ21 wrote:You can cut this last item from the list, as ShoR is off the GCD, so does not compete with the filler "X" abilities in our rotation.

Ditto.

Whoops - forgot that. WoG as well.

Both good catches.

Cleared out the bank last night, fixed my UI. My god I had a lot of crap. Anyway, the prior-expansion "OMG you're amazing!" gear (Sunwell set, H-LK set) and my other dress-up stuff is now in Void Storage. Bank is empty bar a few crafting materials and the Unique things I don't want to sell.

Tonight is follow my own FAQ and L2P, followed by clearing out the quest log and picking up a set of dailies to hand in.
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby twilytgardnfaery » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:44 pm

SO GRATEFUL TO SEE THIS HERE!

ILY Knaughty. Sadly, I did very poorly with math in school so I need a translator from Theck to English, and you always do such a smashing job of it. Also, it's fairly reassuring to see someone whose judgment I always trusted (no pun intended) saying that most of the talents are good, because I looked at them and went, "Wait, what, they ARE actually all worth something? I must be missing something here!"

Poor Celynia (US - Stormrage - A) is on the back-burner at this point, but I might be dusting her off for one last heroic DS before MoP, so I needed a crash course in how not to fail at it xD
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby DisRuptive1 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:53 am

According to Theck, Consecration being ahead of Avenger's Shield (when the proc isn't up) is a slight DPS increase.

theckhd wrote:TLDR Summary
  • CS>J>AS>Cons>L90>HW is the "base" rotation. "L90" refers to whichever level 90 talent you choose.
  • For those seeking to optimize without sacrificing HPG, CS>J>AS+>Cons>L90>AS>HW will be a slight DPS increase.
  • Maximum DPS would be CS>J>Cons>ES>AS>HW>SotR.
  • For those looking for more defensive options, ^WB>CS>J>AS+>Cons>^SS>HW>SotR is the most efficient way to min-max DPS while keeping nearly maximum survivability.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby Knievel » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:32 pm

Very nice write up! Thanks for summarizing it.

I have the per-expansion stat question that I know THeck has answered and shown charts but I have not been able to decipher yet:
What are we looking for in our stats? I saw on the blizzard boards 7.5 Hit, then 7.5 Expertise, then max out on stamina while finding a good mix of mastery etc.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby jere » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:15 pm

Something to consider:
In the "where did my auras go?" section, it might be worth mentioning that crusader aura is still around, but is baked into the class a self only passive buff. The link for it is http://www.wowhead.com/spell=32223 if interested.

Not that it is necessary to know for raiding, but just for completeness. May not be worth it for the FAQ, but figured I would mention it incase.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby knaughty » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:17 pm

DisRuptive1 wrote:According to Theck, Consecration being ahead of Avenger's Shield (when the proc isn't up) is a slight DPS increase.


Yes, in theory something like ^WB>CS>J>AS+>Cons>^SS>AS>HW>SotR is optimal.

However, it's single-figure percentages better than just binding similar to this:
  1. CS (shift/alt/ctrl for HotR)
  2. Judge
  3. Avenger's Shield
  4. Consecrate (shift/alt/ctrl for SS)
  5. Holy Wrath
  6. ShoR (shift/alt/ctrl for WoG)
Your rotation then becomes "hit the leftmost ability that's available". My (very strong) opinion is that clean execution of a simpler rotation will do more DPS than sketch execution of a complex rotation.

In addition, a simpler rotation allows more attention to fight mechanics. Max damage is "Job 4".

I've lost track of how many server firsts I've tanked. I can't think of one where me doing an extra 1-5% damage was critical to success. I can't count the wipes that have been caused by me making a tiny mistake.

Maybe MoP will be different and tank damage rather than fight control will be the important thing. Seems pretty damn unlikely to me, however.

Thus, my advice is:
  1. CS > Judge > AS > Cons > HW. K.I.S.S.
  2. Weakened Blows & SS take priority over next ability that doesn't generate Holy Power. Ideally, you refresh them before they fall off.
  3. Spend any left over brainpower on executing fight mechanics better and paying attention to your environment, rather than trying to do 3% more damage.
  4. ShoR @ 5 HoPo unless WoG is better. You'll know this because you're paying attention to you health, your healer's mana, any adds, the next incoming fight mechanic/special/whatever because you're not tracking procs or other shit.

Another example of "Knaughty advises you not to do max DPS". Never Glyph Avenger's Shield. The DPS boost isn't worth the deaths and wipes cause by the fact that you can't cleanly pick up three adds. People concentrate too much on max DPS on the boss rather than cleanly, quickly and efficiently clearing the trash to reach the bosses. I've g-kicked someone for consistently being last on DPS for trash despite being top-5 for DPS on bosses.
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby DisRuptive1 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:03 pm

Have you not updated the gearing section because you don't have enough time, you're lazy, or you're just not sure what to say? I noticed in your 4.0 FAQ that the gearing section wasn't filled out either.
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Re: 5.0 Tankadin FAQ - Protection Paladin Basics

Postby knaughty » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:11 pm

DisRuptive1 wrote:Have you not updated the gearing section because you don't have enough time, you're lazy, or you're just not sure what to say? I noticed in your 4.0 FAQ that the gearing section wasn't filled out either.


4.0 wasn't completed because I wasn't playing very much at launch and there wasn't much to add to the references sections.

I will have some stuff to say this time about gearing strategies. Today's blog post from Theck covers the ugly detail, I will summarise later, but the amazingly short version is this:

As far as your healer is concerned, Mastery/Hit/Expertise > Dodge/Parry
This isn't the "Offtankadin" forum. My MoP FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/FAQ-5-0
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