Guild Wars 2

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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby bldavis » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:00 pm

the world exploration is great, i love that aspect
the dynamic events are a blast too, getting to watch the story unfold as you follow NPCs around

but the dungeons suck in my expirience
at least AC

i havent tried the second one, but have heard it is easier so i might give it a shot later today
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Darielle » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:47 pm

Fridmarr wrote:For me the issue wasn't difficulty, we didn't seem to have any issues with that. Though if we had, that would have been really frustrating. To me it just seemed like it was a giant mess. The gameplay itself wasn't fun. I do have a few toughness/vitality pieces and used more support skills, and we also had a guardian that was spec'd for support. That's likely why we did fine, but even with that, it was not fun.


In saying that, my question would be what about it?

The one thing I've found annoying in combat is when turning the camera with left click-turn, it also deselects your target if there is another target available which is a bit annoying. Is it the UI in terms of conditions? Too many spell effects? Lack of telegraph for attacks? What made it a mess?

Sie note: Since I'm the type that levels alts, after my Guardian's hit 80, a Rogue with Pistol/Dagger is incredibly fun. Your kite potential is just ridiculous. Alongside Staff Mesmer, hell yeah.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:18 am

I've done the next two dungeons now too. I'm forced (for various reasons) to spend about 80% of my time (in TA that flirted dangerously with 100%) either at range using a gun/bow and/or kiting, which isn't the dominate play style I'm interested in on my warrior. Every fight feels like the Faction Champions fight from WotLK, with a sprinkle of different specials.

Basically it all just comes down to the fact that I'm not interested in that one mini game (ranged/kiting) that is pretty much everything you do in dungeons as far as I can tell.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby ryan4nayr » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:50 am

Fridmarr wrote:Basically it all just comes down to the fact that I'm not interested in that one mini game (ranged/kiting) that is pretty much everything you do in dungeons as far as I can tell.

The beta weekends yielded the same impression on many warriors and thiefs who did Ascalon Catacombs and PvP. ArenaNet promised to look into it back then but I personally didn't think much would come out of it.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Gracerath » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:10 pm

It is indeed pretty sad how many trash/bosses feel like they are forced ranged fights. However, I don't have a big issue with it cause everyone has viable ranged to deal with it. Yeah, it stinks having to bust out a rifle/long bow as a warrior on occasion but those are built into every class. You can't just ignore your weapon skillsets for dungeons just cause you don't like them. I've done everything up through Citadel of Flame so far and while some fights felt frustrating, it was just the learning curve. We eventually found what works and what doesn't and bosses died. Sure, it cost some time running back from a repair waypoint but in the end, loot/silver was dropped and fun was had by all.

Every group is obviously having different experiences though and I do feel for those people that are frustrated with things. While I do think that GW2 is probably the best MMO I've ever played, it still has some bumpy bits that definitely need smoothed over.

Also, on the WvW front. Yak's Bend surprised me. Once the timers went to a full week, we are now in try-hard mode. We had commanders dropping seige equipment and giving orders and it was a blast. Last I saw this morning we owned a large portion of each map and had all three orbs of power. I found a very survivable warrior build with 1h sword / shield and longbow and it is fun. If you haven't tried the trait "Death from Above" as a warrior in WvW, you're doing yourself and your team a disservice. Have enemies setting up battering rams on your front doorstep? Not on my watch! Just fall down into the pack and you launch everyone away as you land. Run back inside and repeat. Bonus if you are on a keep near a cliff and you find an unfortunate ranger off to the side near the edge trying to stay hidden while shooting and you drop onto him and launch him right off the side :)
Bye space sword!
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:53 pm

Gracerath wrote:It is indeed pretty sad how many trash/bosses feel like they are forced ranged fights. However, I don't have a big issue with it cause everyone has viable ranged to deal with it. Yeah, it stinks having to bust out a rifle/long bow as a warrior on occasion but those are built into every class. You can't just ignore your weapon skillsets for dungeons just cause you don't like them. I've done everything up through Citadel of Flame so far and while some fights felt frustrating, it was just the learning curve. We eventually found what works and what doesn't and bosses died. Sure, it cost some time running back from a repair waypoint but in the end, loot/silver was dropped and fun was had by all.

I think the notion of using different weapon sets and taking advantage of swapping is a fair enough mechanic to expect in dungeons, but it's no where near balanced. I've yet to see ranged forced to go melee. Sure they may swap for different ranged skills but they aren't changing their game play. Plus, I don't think it's an occasional thing that melee uses ranged weapons or is kiting (and if you're kiting you might as well pull out your gun and do damage at the same time), but the vast majority of the time.

I don't mind it so much in zerg PVP, but honestly, I use melee more there cleaning up the scraps than in dungeons, and that's with the shitty GS signet build.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Gracerath » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:01 pm

I can sort of agree but also disagree. So far from every boss I've encountered, I feel only 2-3 of them really force you to be at ranged (for story mode bosses anyway. Haven't done explorable and that could be a whole other issue entirely!). I guess it also depends on your group composition. If you have boons such as protection (33% dmg reduction) and aegis (block the next attack) being in melee feels much less dangerous. Also with stat scaling, doing AC for the first time in level 30 gear with 20 trait points is significantly different than doing it at level 80 downscaled to 30 with 70 trait points and gear. A few of us at 80 went to help a few lower levels and alts through and we a much easier time surviving the stuff that really destroyed us the first time around. I'll say this, as a level 80 warrior, I spend a majority of my time in melee range with a sword/mace and shield/warhorn.

Regardless, there are some definite issues that need to be tuned yet. The first boss we fought in Citadel of Flame ... in order to defeat him we had to get him stuck on the terrain and .. you guessed it.. do a ranged burn on him to get him to the next phase of the fight. Things like that are certainly NOT fun.

This may interest you a bit. I've swapped over to this kind of gear / spec and it has been great fun and feels very survivable in dungeons and WvW. (Its for level 80 but you can still make it work in lower levels. I leveled up with tactics and defense points and had no problems at all) http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comm ... ior_build/
Bye space sword!
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:55 pm

Well I'm not 80 yet, so I concede that it certainly could be different at 80, I mean I really really hope it is...

But anyhow then you are specing/gearing/slotting as a healer tank (aka support role), and even then you still have to kite and go to ranged at times. I would have no problem if I could spec offensive and just switch to sword and board when needed, or pop some defensive abilities on a reasonable CD instead of kiting, but that doesn't seem viable because the shield doesn't do much unless you support it with skills and a build, and you are totally useless for all the time you have to move out of melee range because you don't have a ranged weapon equipped.

I disagree with your count too, in TA I think we could melee one boss and almost no trash. Honestly, the mechanics are so lopsided that just doing a perpetual kite strafe turns some encounters into ez mode. We one shot Brangoire and three of our party died instantly to the first spider explosions, me and a another dude just did a strafe circle and basically were immune to all the damage. Even when you can melee, ranged can still be so much more effective with the mechanics I've seen so far.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Gracerath » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:18 pm

I think we can all agree that there still needs to be some tuning for melee damage in dungeons. We can certainly make it work but as you say, ranged just has a more effective time dealing with current mechanics. I'm interested to see how they handle things over the coming weeks/months. They seem to have taken a pretty hard stance on reducing any sort of difficulty for their dungeons just yet so we'll have to wait and see. While I like a challenge, I thought story mode was supposed to be fairly doable with any class/trait setup with relative ease while the explorable modes were supposed to be where you had to build specific groups with specific traits.

One issue I have is inconsistency within the dungeons. Some bosses seem face meltingly difficult while others go "Wait, that was a boss?" Example: The Lovers in AC vs the necromancer boss north of them, or heck even the ranger boss.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby aureon » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:19 am

L80 dungeons suck, exactly like the rest.
It's a kitefest, since there's no aggro system. What is this again? 2001?

sPVP/tPVP is a BLAST, but lack of actual competitive environment to play in is annoying (My 5man group has a 90%+ winrate of tournaments, which translates to 96% winrate.. that's NOT fun)
WvW suffers from the same: I'd really like 25-on-25-on-25 matches with a limited time. (Say, 30min-3h)

Lack of consequences is what will make this game stagnate. It's a themepark to even bigger levels than SWTOR.
Aesthetic gear rewards could've been a good idea, but then, actually make GOOD THINGS TO WEAR! Even the Rank60+ stuff kind of sucks as visuals.

Being able to try any class directly at L80 with just creating it rocks.
I've now got ~200 matches on main (engineer, mainly PD) and ~250 on "l2 alt" (Elementalist, scepter/dagger signet/condition)
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Gracerath » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:14 pm

Actually there ARE aggro mechanics. They are just kind of hidden. I don't know every criteria but one of them is "has shield equipped" along with other things like proximity, doing damage, etc. They really should make those things more transparent.

I did two dungeon runs last night, Twilight Arbor and Sorrow's Embrace while running my sword/shield and longbow with my healing set on for healing shouts and trash enemies stuck to me a vast majority of the time. Bosses are another ball of wax but even the it seemed they were targetting me more often. People continue to complain about kiting but its totally possible to stand there and take it with group comp. If you have someone applying weakness to enemies and/or applying protection to your party or a modicum of healing, its really not a big deal at all. My shouts were healing for ~2k per shout, I have 3 of them on a 20-25s cooldown and that was more than enough to get through the hard fights. Some DO still do better with kiting, no denying that but its absolutely not "required"

Something that I'm noticing that seems to make these dungeons go incredibly easier is massive condition removal. All of my shouts cured at least 1 condition, our ranger had condition removal from her healing spring (Or at least poison and burning I think) and we had the big mesmer dome that removes condtions from allies/boons from enemies. We plan our traits out around our group comp though which I bet most average PUG's are not doing.

Still even all that said, most complaints about dungeons are valid. The coolest boss fights are very gimmicky. Others have WAY too much health. (The asura boss that summons 3 golems in Sorrow's Embrace comes to mind). Action combat in MMO's has mainly been the domain of Korean MMO's or super hero MMO's. Those have a smaller Western demographic and we certainly aren't used to that playstyle. Personally I love it but I can see where others may not.

I really agree with the visuals of armor and gear being lacking in general. That is something they will certainly add more of down the line but to start with, a lot of the gear just doesn't look great. There are a few very distinct sets like the citadel of flame or twilight arbor sets or the level 80 karma sets but apart from those, everything else is rather plain, not to mention a complete pain in the ass to acquire.

Apologies for the walls o' text lately. I havent' been this invested in a game since vanilla WoW.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Era » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:24 am

I'm aiming for an armour mix between Sylvari cultural T1 and T3. However, I don't get enough time to play these days to have a decent gold income from playing by itself nor the time to properly get to know the GW2 trading post market...

As for aggro mechanics?

1. Roll a Necromancer.
2. Hop into Death Shroud.
3. Hit that AoE.
4. ??????
5. Aggro from everything that ever existed anywhere on the faces of all the fantasy universes.


6. Kite like a boss and win anyway.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Archeth » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:39 am

Gracerath wrote:I really agree with the visuals of armor and gear being lacking in general. That is something they will certainly add more of down the line but to start with, a lot of the gear just doesn't look great. There are a few very distinct sets like the citadel of flame or twilight arbor sets or the level 80 karma sets but apart from those, everything else is rather plain, not to mention a complete pain in the ass to acquire.

I think this is one thing that might backfire in the long run. There are a lot of pretty armors, there's a lot of variety. But it's almost exclusively in the hard to get pieces. Most standard armor designs for quest rewards, crafted stuff and the affordable karma rewards (as in, not the 43k/piece stuff although you can swim in karma from WvW if you want to) are very bland. Medium armor's choice between leather coats A through Z is the worst offender, while light armor has probably the best variety and looks for limited effort.

People will want their characters to be pretty princesses, but I think they might risk losing a lot of the more casual crowd once people figure out that everything that looks kinda neat costs a ton of gold or a bajillion of tokens. And not because players want the shiny rewards the easy way (some undoubtedly will) but because the way to acquire these pieces is an incredible amount of repetition (dozens of dungeon runs, hours spent in Orr farming certain events back and forth, etc.). No endgame is a noble goal but I can't shake the feeling they opted for more repetition than necessary or healthy.

The levelling content, open world, WvW if you finally get through that queue, that stuff is fine (include other features as you see fit). Dungeons and general bosses are kind of a mess everywhere, but I think they can be salvaged although right now it doesn't look like ArenaNet actually wants to. With regards to the whole ranged-do-encounters-better thing, it's fine to have ranged options for everyone, but as a guardian I'm not too psyched whenever I'm "incentivized" to use ranged weapons. I just don't like mine (staff and scepter) at all - although they're fine options of course, it's just a limited toolkit (I have the same problem with my underwater options, FWIW).
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Gracerath » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:05 am

The worst part about the karma armor for heavy is that it is spikes and skulls. God dammit. I spent years playing a death knight in WoW. The last thing I want to see is more damned spikes and skulls! I ended up going with T2 cultural Norn armor skin for my exotic set and I'm pretty happy with it. Now I just need to find weapon skins that look decent and I'll be set for a while. I have 135k karma banked and I'll probably just save it all until the next set of vendors come out down the line and I'll see what they will offer.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Postby Era » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:40 am

Norn T2 and T3 is pretty nice (at least for females, haven't seen on a male). Definitely getting one of them for my warrior once she hits that level! ^^

Although, I'm planning to buy Sylvari T3 for my necromancer, so guess I'll be broke for a while... :roll:

EDIT: On that note, anyone found good ways of earning money ASIDE from working the auction house? I used to be a major AH player in WoW, but I really haven't had the time to work with the GW2 one yet. I don't give myself as much gaming time anymore, so when I'm actually playing, I like to be doing something other than stare at numbers. :roll:
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