Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby sahiel » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:12 pm

xstratax wrote:Anyone else finding that the extra 10% Stamina we got as part of the GbtL buff is now gone?

Yep, just logged in to mention it seems to have vanished. No sign whether it was deemed too much or if it is a bug or what's happening yet, although I'm presuming it was someone accidentally using data from the previous version of GBtL when they made the latest patch and not the recently updated one with 25% stam, if it was an intended change I'd expect them to have mentioned something, we'll see.

Edit: Yep, fixed already it looks like, back up to 25% though the tooltip still says 15%.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Cema » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:25 pm

Yup.

I can confirm stamina scaling is now 1.25*1.05 on Beta though the Tooltip says 15% and there is still no sign of Plate Spec in the spellbook
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Flitter » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:38 am

Again some insights directly from Ghostcrawler regarding Divine Purpose:

Ghostcrawler wrote:-- Word of Glory was mistakenly giving two chances to proc Divine Purpose (one for the cast, one for the heal / damage). It now only gives one chance, as you'd expect.
-- As previously mentioned, Divine Purpose's proc chance is supposed to be reduced to 8.33% or 16.66% if you cast a finisher with 1 or 2 Holy Power. That was also incorrectly applying to casts of finishers with Divine Purpose active. For example, suppose you had 4 Holy Power, and cast Light of Dawn (dropping you to 1 Holy Power). That procs Divine Purpose. You then Light of Dawn again. Previously, it would see that you're at 1 Holy Power, and give that second cast only an 8.33% chance to proc Divine Purpose again. This fixes that, so that casts made with Divine Purpose have the full 25% chance to proc Divine Purpose again.
-- Some finishers would proc Divine Purpose instantly when you cast them, and some would have a moment of delay between the cast and you gaining Divine Purpose. Those have been fixed to always proc instantly; it should feel much more responsive now.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:04 pm

I've posted the first batch of sims on the front page. I still have to do the stat weight and weapon simulations, those I'll get to tomorrow. Once I'm done I'll be copy/pasting them all in here for posterity's sake (so we have a copy once I update them eventually with patches).

I also have to put together the gear sets I used on Wowhead for linking, unless someone wants to be kind and do that for me.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby econ21 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:19 am

Thanks for the great work, theck.

Are you planning to evaluate the stats in terms of dps as before? Because I think the work you've done on TDR is more interesting. I guess it's already out in your blog, but if tanks come to this forum wanting to know about stat weights, I think showing them numbers relevant to survivability would be better than showing them dps numbers.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:24 am

Initially, I'm primarily going to look at DPS, since that's what the MATLAB code calculates. I'll probably just link to the blog post and summarize the results for now. Of course, the analytical calculation done in that blog post is all in MATLAB too, so it would be pretty easy to merge it into the bulk of this code, and I plan on doing that in the future.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby aresius » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:30 am

Im glad that you are already updating the 5.0 matlab thread! Ive been checking for updates on a daily basis.
Bits and pieces of feedback:

-Unless im blind, Hammer of Wrath (HoW) listed in the ability damage section does not exist in the glossary.

-In the TLDR of the rotation section the base rotation is discribed as "CS>J>AS>Cons>L90>HW". To me, it is not clear how obvious it would be for someone who didint read that section that "L90" stands for one of the three level 90 talent abilities. Just figured a short explanation line such as "L90 stands for whichever level 90 talent you took" might prevent someone mindlessly asking about it in the thread later on.

-I wanted to also share my view of the WoG glyph:

As expected, a glyphed WoG simulates for less dps then just using the HPs on a SoTR. Yet to me it doesent seem fair to state that the glyph loses value based on that. My view on WoGing is that we will build up buff stacks with SoTR and sit on them, but any time we are soemwhat low on health we just top ourselves off with the WoG: Use it as if it where a mini-LoH. And i cant imagine progression without moments the tank will want to WoG himself.

Considering the premise that we will be using WoG frequently in fights, even if not in a set rotational basis, having the glyph will make the dps loss for the WoGing we are already doing, be smaller. It is probably hard, if not impossible, to math out precisely the dps "gain" of glyphing WoG (comparing Wogging when at low health withought the glyph to wogging with it), since the use of WoG would be a reaction to circunstance (Dont know if one can look at sets of pareses for given fights and reliably give a statistical ammount of times a tank will find himself below X ammount of health).
Point is, putting the WoG glyph in this perspective it seems (to me at least) like an attractive option.

Edit: Case i was unclear, my impression is that paladin tanking in MoP would be similar to DK tanking, but with more mitigation and less frequent heals. For a somewhat simplified example of my thoughts: while a DK would take a big hit for X and then heal it back, repeatedly, a paladin would take 5 X/5 smaller hits and then heal it all back, repeatedly. I imagine the "heal it back" important for both classes so healers would be able to keep each of them alive with inexpensive heals in between the tanks heavy self healing.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Zalaria » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:02 am

Here's the Wowhead linkage for your gear sets, formatted similarly to the 4.X thread:


Gems are the same for all sets:
Blue Socket: [Solid River's Heart]
Red Socket: [Defender's Imperial Amethyst]
Yellow Socket: [Puissant Wild Jade]
Prismatic Socket: [Solid River's Heart]
Meta Gem: [Austere Primal Diamond]

Enchants are the same for all sets:
Shoulder: [Ox Horn Inscription]
Cloak: [Greater Protection]
Chest: [Superior Stamina]
Wrist: [SuperiorDodge]
Hands: [Superior Mastery]
Legs: [Ironscale Leg Armor]
Feet: [Pandaren's Step]
Ring: [Stamina]
Weapon: [Colossus]
Shield: [Greater Parry]


Starter - Pre-5-mans, ilvl 450
Head: [Masterwork Spiritguard Helm]
Neck: [Badge of the Amber Siege]
Shoulder: [Masterwork Spiritguard Shoulders]
Back: [Blade-Dulling Greatcloak]
Chest: [Masterwork Spiritguard Breastplate]
Wrist: [Masterwork Spiritguard Bracers]
Hands: [Masterwork Spiritguard Gauntlets]
Waist: [Masterwork Spiritguard Belt]
Legs: [Masterwork Spiritguard Legplates]
Feet: [Masterwork Spiritguard Boots]
Finger #1: [Heart of the Earth]
Finger #2: [Thunderstone Ring]
Trinket #1: [Iron Protector Talisman]
Trinket #2: [Ghost Iron Dragonling]
Weapon: [Ook's Hozen Slicer]
Shield: [Impervious Carapace (Heroic)]

T14 LFR, ilvl 483
Head: [White Tiger Faceguard (LFR)]
Neck: [Kaolan's Withering Necklace (LFR)]
Shoulder: [White Tiger Shoulderguards (LFR)]
Back: [Daybreak Drape (LFR)]
Chest: [White Tiger Chestguard (LFR)]
Wrist: [Serrated Wasp Bracers (LFR)]
Hands: [White Tiger Handguards (LFR)]
Waist: [Protector's Girlde of Endless Spring (LFR)]
Legs: [White Tiger's Legguards (LFR)]
Feet: [Deepwater Greatboots (LFR)]
Finger #1: [Ring of the Shattered Shell (LFR)]
Finger #2: [Vizier's Ruby Signet (LFR)]
Trinket #1: [Jade Warlord Figurine (LFR)]
Trinket #2: [Vial of Dragon's Blood (LFR)]
Weapon: [Scimitar of Seven Stars (LFR)]
Shield: [Steelskin, Qiang's Impervious Shield (LFR)]

T14 Normal, ilvl 496
Head: [White Tiger Faceguard]
Neck: [Kaolan's Withering Necklace]
Shoulder: [White Tiger Shoulderguards]
Back: [Daybreak Drape]
Chest: [White Tiger Chestguard]
Wrist: [Serrated Wasp Bracers]
Hands: [White Tiger Handguards]
Waist: [Protector's Girlde of Endless Spring]
Legs: [White Tiger's Legguards]
Feet: [Deepwater Greatboots]
Finger #1: [Ring of the Shattered Shell]
Finger #2: [Vizier's Ruby Signet]
Trinket #1: [Jade Warlord Figurine]
Trinket #2: [Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage]
Weapon: [Scimitar of Seven Stars]
Shield: [Steelskin, Quiang's Impervious Shield]

T14 Heroic, ilvl 509
Head: [White Tiger Faceguard (Heroic)]
Neck: [Kaolan's Withering Necklace (Heroic)]
Shoulder: [White Tiger Shoulderguards (Heroic)]
Back: [Daybreak Drape (Heroic)]
Chest: [White Tiger Chestguard (Heroic)]
Wrist: [Serrated Wasp Bracers (Heroic)]
Hands: [White Tiger Handguards (Heroic)]
Waist: [Protector's Girlde of Endless Spring (Heroic)]
Legs: [White Tiger's Legguards (Heroic)]
Feet: [Deepwater Greatboots (Heroic)]
Finger #1: [Ring of the Shattered Shell (Heroic)]
Finger #2: [Vizier's Ruby Signet (Heroic)]
Trinket #1: [Jade Warlord Figurine]
Trinket #2: [Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage]
Weapon: [Scimitar of Seven Stars (Heroic)]
Shield: [Steelskin, Quiang's Impervious Shield (Heroic)]
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:04 pm

aresius wrote:Im glad that you are already updating the 5.0 matlab thread! Ive been checking for updates on a daily basis.
Bits and pieces of feedback:

-Unless im blind, Hammer of Wrath (HoW) listed in the ability damage section does not exist in the glossary.

-In the TLDR of the rotation section the base rotation is discribed as "CS>J>AS>Cons>L90>HW". To me, it is not clear how obvious it would be for someone who didint read that section that "L90" stands for one of the three level 90 talent abilities. Just figured a short explanation line such as "L90 stands for whichever level 90 talent you took" might prevent someone mindlessly asking about it in the thread later on.

Both good catches, I'll update them shortly.

aresius wrote:-I wanted to also share my view of the WoG glyph:

As expected, a glyphed WoG simulates for less dps then just using the HPs on a SoTR. Yet to me it doesent seem fair to state that the glyph loses value based on that. My view on WoGing is that we will build up buff stacks with SoTR and sit on them, but any time we are soemwhat low on health we just top ourselves off with the WoG: Use it as if it where a mini-LoH. And i cant imagine progression without moments the tank will want to WoG himself.

Considering the premise that we will be using WoG frequently in fights, even if not in a set rotational basis, having the glyph will make the dps loss for the WoGing we are already doing, be smaller. It is probably hard, if not impossible, to math out precisely the dps "gain" of glyphing WoG (comparing Wogging when at low health withought the glyph to wogging with it), since the use of WoG would be a reaction to circunstance (Dont know if one can look at sets of pareses for given fights and reliably give a statistical ammount of times a tank will find himself below X ammount of health).
Point is, putting the WoG glyph in this perspective it seems (to me at least) like an attractive option.

In that sort of scenario, the WoG glyph doesn't perform too well. Consider that in the case where we're using all of our HP on WoG to keep up the 6-second 10% damage buff, we only get a ~4k DPS increase over not having the glyph. If we're casting WoG every ~30 seconds instead of every ~7.5 seconds, the effect is going to be a quarter as strong. So in this hypothetical case, the glyph is only worth 1k DPS, and it gets progressively worse as you use WoG less frequently.

So it's a little damage boost to help mitigate the fact that we had to use WoG instead of SotR, but it's still a smaller benefit in those scenarios than Alabaster Shield or Focused Shield would be. If we're willing to run three DPS glyphs, it's arguably a decent choice (though I think you could make equally good arguments for Harsh Words or Final Wrath). But if we're going to take any utility glyphs at all, GoWoG is the one to go.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:45 pm

OK, all of the front page posts that I have done are updated. The AOE sim is next on the list, but it still needs to be written. Enchant/Food sim is still waiting on a dynamic effects module, which has no ETA at this point. Hopefully sooner rather than later, though.

I still need to update the gear sets as well, thanks for compiling them Zalaria.

Let me know if I've missed any weapons of interest in the weapon sim - I think I got them all, but it's entirely possible that I skipped some of the agi or crit weapons, as I compiled the list quite some time ago and may have overlooked them.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Schroom » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:53 pm

any news on weapon enchants?

- River's Song (I guess no, as the DR on dodge is immense!)
- Windsong or
- Colossus

last thing I read was that Windsong was buggy and the PPM on colossus was very low, but that was beta...
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Celyn » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:15 pm

Im sorry if this has been asked before but im confused on something with the single target rotations....err priority queues.

Why does the priority queue with Cons>ES generate more damage than the one with ES>Cons?

According to the ability damage section Cons does 72047 damage at 50k and 121971 damage at 100k vengeance. Execution sentence does 273858 at 50k and 456788 damage at 100k.

So wouldnt ES have a higher dpct than Cons and be a better and more efficient use of GCDs than cons? Yet according to the sims on page one at 7.50% hit, 7.50% exp, SoT

Code: Select all
| 14 | CS>J>AS>ES>Cons>HW>SotR               |  96124 |      0 |  59239 |      0 |   0.0 |   6.6 | 0.3948 |
| 15 | CS>J>AS>Cons>ES>HW>SotR               |  96318 |      0 |  59351 |      0 |   0.0 |   6.1 | 0.3948 |


Why is this? When up ES does over 2x as much damage, shouldn't 14 beat 15?

One last thing. Could HaNova be added to the glossary. Took me a while (and going back to the cata thread) to figure that out >.<
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:15 am





Is there any reason behind you going for, effectively, stam over say...parry/mastery (red), straight mastery (yellow/prismatic)? At the current lvls, I don't necessarily see the DR on Avoidance stats being that bad that stam will outweigh it like I imagine it to towards the end of the xpac.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:10 am

Celyn wrote:So wouldnt ES have a higher dpct than Cons and be a better and more efficient use of GCDs than cons? Yet according to the sims on page one at 7.50% hit, 7.50% exp, SoT

Code: Select all
| 14 | CS>J>AS>ES>Cons>HW>SotR               |  96124 |      0 |  59239 |      0 |   0.0 |   6.6 | 0.3948 |
| 15 | CS>J>AS>Cons>ES>HW>SotR               |  96318 |      0 |  59351 |      0 |   0.0 |   6.1 | 0.3948 |


Why is this? When up ES does over 2x as much damage, shouldn't 14 beat 15?

Yes, ES has a higher DPCT. However, you don't get a max-DPS rotation by simply prioritizing in order of DPCT. For example, CS is terrible DPCT, yet we get higher DPS with CS>J than with J>CS. Why is that? They both generate HP after all.

You also have to consider cooldowns. It's usually a larger DPS loss to push back a shorter cooldown than a longer one. In CS/J's case, this means you generate more Holy Power and fill more GCDs with CS>J. In the case of Cons/ES, it's because ES has such a long cooldown that a few extra GCDs doesn't make a huge impact in its overall DPS, while pushing back CS by a few GCDs does.

See also: Ret in Wrath, Prot/Ret in Cataclysm, and many other classes.


Celyn wrote:One last thing. Could HaNova be added to the glossary. Took me a while (and going back to the cata thread) to figure that out >.<

Yup, I can do that.

Fenrìr wrote:Is there any reason behind you going for, effectively, stam over say...parry/mastery (red), straight mastery (yellow/prismatic)? At the current lvls, I don't necessarily see the DR on Avoidance stats being that bad that stam will outweigh it like I imagine it to towards the end of the xpac.

Because choosing stamina over avoidance never had anything to do with diminishing returns in the first place. DR on avoidance is more or less irrelevant for most of the choices here.

The reason I choose stamina is because it's good. Serious tanks always gem EH when approaching progression content (perhaps less so on 10's, but damage intake on 10's has always been a joke compared to 25's). In general that means stamina, except under odd or special circumstances (ex: block-capping, which was still gemming for EH). And since it doesn't matter how you gear if you're killing things after it's been nerfed to hell, it seems reasonable to focus on theorycrafting the cases that matter.

More importantly, perhaps, these are primarily DPS simulations. I'll leave it to you to guess how much of an impact it has on your DPS whether you gem stamina (which has no DPS benefit) or parry (which has no DPS benefit) or dodge (which has no DPS benefit) or mastery (which has no DPS benefit unless you use Alabaster Shield, in which case it has a really pathetically small DPS benefit that doesn't affect anything since it's tied to an off-GCD ability).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Phonic » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:02 pm

Theck, thank you for all your hard work and for everyone's contributions. It's been tough to find quality information these days and it seems like there just aren't as many posts/guides, etc. these days...

Been having a blast in MOP and can't wait to try out some raids tonight!
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