Remove Advertisements

Righteous Fury threat generation bugged - confirmed

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:55 am

Gerilith wrote:
Lore wrote:Were said posters reporting low numbers on KTM/Omen?

Like I said in the other thread, and several other people have said already, if you are seeing low numbers on your threat meter the problem is not an RF bug. All the threat meter does is look at how much damage you did, multiply it by however much you're supposed to have from buffs/talents, and spit that back out. If your consecrate ticks for 100 damage and you have imp RF up, it will always report that as 190 threat, regardless of how much threat RF actually contributed.

I have yet to hear a situation in which someone had a decent threat lead and lost aggro, at least since 2.3.2.

No, it have been people who had problems with mobs killing people and trying out will do no harm, especially if it solves the problem (no discussion why it should do so, please, it obviously did for some people because the game handled their RF as if it would not have been skilled).


How do you know the way the game handled their RF? That is almost impossible to determine without specific tests, and as has been pointed out repeatedly, will not show up on a threat meter.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Gerilith » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:57 am

Fridmarr wrote:How do you know the way the game handled their RF? That is almost impossible to determine without specific tests, and as has been pointed out repeatedly, will not show up on a threat meter.

To say it precisely: That's what has been assumed by some of them.
Standing alone with no direction
How did I fall so far behind?
Why Am I searching for perfection?
Knowing it's something I won't find
User avatar
Gerilith
 
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:21 am
Location: Germany

Postby Lore » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:17 am

Gerilith wrote:No, it have been people who had problems with mobs killing people and trying out will do no harm, especially if it solves the problem (no discussion why it should do so, please, it obviously did for some people because the game handled their RF as if it would not have been skilled).


But it doesn't show that there's a bug (which we should report, with the proper testing and proof, so it gets fixed). If you have bad threat, go un-spec and spec back, and then your threat is fine, that doesn't prove anything. There are a lot of potential causes for losing aggro repeatedly or seeing fluctuations on the threat meters.

Patches tend to break mods, and mods tend to break on their own, so you *cannot* rely on threat meters for proof. The new patch means some people got new toys or class changes, so it's quite likely that people are paying a little more attention to their DPS, which means they're doing more of it than normal. It's also highly likely that people who are now actively looking for their threat to be bad will see the 400-500 TPS lulls that come from a string of dodges inbetween Judgements (which have always been there, just ignored) and think that indicates an across-the-board threat nerf even though they're still getting the 1400 TPS spikes that they previously called their "sustained TPS." Hell, the simple passage of time is enough reason to start seeing yourself losing aggro, just because people have the tendency to upgrade their gear.

You're correct in that trying the respeccing thing doesn't do any harm, but if there IS a bug it needs to be proven conclusively with steps to reproduce it or god knows when they'll get around to testing it all out themselves. If there is a bug, this is what needs to be done to prove it:

Step 1: Get someone else, preferably someone with a very low and predictable damage output and no innate threat modifiers. Clothies meleeing things tends to work well (they do very low melee damage and their threat reduction talents only apply to specific spell schools).
Step 2: Run a damage meter, make sure it's cleared.
Step 3: Put RF up and hit something with a threat spell. Avenger's Shield works well, or JoR (but be careful not to swing your weapon). Record how much damage it did.
Step 4: Have your caster friend start melee'ing. As soon as he pulls aggro, have him stop melee'ing and record how much damage he's done.

Repeat steps 2-4 a good number of times, then get out your calculator.

Step 5: Figure up how much threat your initial attack did (or was supposed to) by multiplying the damage by 1.9.
Step 6: Figure up how much damage your friend would need to have done to pull aggro. If it's someone with no innate threat reduction, that number is the number from step 5 multiplied by 1.1.
Step 7: If the clothy did LESS damage than the number you got in step 6, something's up. If the clothy did the same or more, then you haven't found anything. Repeat steps 5-7 for each set of data collected in steps 2-4.

If the bug is real, I'm not suffering from it, so I can't test it myself. Someone who is, should. Simply stating "I lost aggro, then I respecced and didn't, obviously RF is bugged, blizz fix pls" will do no good.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Postby Merodyn » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:52 pm

Btw, about alternative speccs. Wouldnt it be worth dropping out deflection at your gear level(if u got aggro problem) and go 5/5 reckoning? or does noone use reckoning at all these days
ImageImage
Merodyn
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:20 am

Postby enbee » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:09 pm

Lore wrote: It's also highly likely that people who are now actively looking for their threat to be bad will see the 400-500 TPS lulls that come from a string of dodges inbetween Judgements (which have always been there, just ignored) and think that indicates an across-the-board threat nerf even though they're still getting the 1400 TPS spikes that they previously called their "sustained TPS."


This.

I haven't noticed a thing, apart from mages putting out more threat then prepatch cause they all went back to fire and specced icyveins in frost.

Merodyn wrote:Btw, about alternative speccs. Wouldnt it be worth dropping out deflection at your gear level(if u got aggro problem) and go 5/5 reckoning? or does noone use reckoning at all these days


Parry actually helps your threat (in a lesser extent then reckoning of course), and its 5% "free" avoidance, while reckoning helps your threat, it also makes you take more damage (the boss will parry your hits more), If you look at it that way, the *gain*(threat) from reckoning doesn't seem so big, especially compared to the *loss*(mitigation) which is twofold.
Image
LoL, a paladin tank!
User avatar
enbee
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:18 am

Previous

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: theckhd, Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: theckhd, Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest