Valor, Honor, Conquest, and Justice, oh my!

[halabar]

If DS is any indication, just about any guild will at least clear normal eventually.

but what about those guilds that do not raid?

not everyone is like most of us and is in a raiding guild

In that case, it depends on what, if any, valor gear is available for purchase, since with the first tier, the valor gear is generally better than the LFR gear.

TD;LR: We dunno yet.

[Skye1013]

TD;LR

Too didn't; long read?

[Treck]

http://www.tdlr.state.tx.us/ ?

[Amirya]

If DS is any indication, just about any guild will at least clear normal eventually.

but what about those guilds that do not raid?

not everyone is like most of us and is in a raiding guild

...so, what? People in non-raiding guilds can't get pugged into runs where a raiding guild might be short a slot or two?

/asplode

[Skye1013]

I don't know what kind of world you live in, but in my world, PUGs are like lepers... all they do is fall apart.

[bldavis]

my point was not everyone will have a chance to get normal mode gear

[halabar]

my point was not everyone will have a chance to get normal mode gear

Well, back to my point... we still don't know if it's buy a token that you use to upgrade your gear, or.. if it's insert your gear and 1500 valor for each upgrade. If the later, we'll have do do is as we go along due to the valor cap. If the former, I'll keep buying them until I get to whatever the top is that I feel I'll reach, and then upgrade everything.

[Amirya]

I don't know what kind of world you live in, but in my world, PUGs are like lepers... all they do is fall apart.

No, we've had some entertaining pugs (the entertainment is when someone calls them out for epic failure, and they have 1001 excuses why).

[Worldie]

If DS is any indication, just about any guild will at least clear normal eventually.

but what about those guilds that do not raid?

not everyone is like most of us and is in a raiding guild

...so, what? People in non-raiding guilds can't get pugged into runs where a raiding guild might be short a slot or two?

/asplode

I think any guild who brings pugs to their main run must be either desperate or very irresponsible.
Usually it's better to raid with 23 than to bring pugs.

[Nooska]

Alas, 10 man raids don't have the same luxury of going with less usually, on the upside we have had a little challenge whe. We had 2 healers, one a pug, and I had higher healing done than the pug healer on hc zon and yor, while tanking (especially when finding out afterwardsbthatbsomeone had turned off thebzone buff/debuff)

We have also had some great pugs though.

[degre]

We cleared DS25n in 17, after doing a few bosses in 15, I am confident that you could do with a raid not full in DS10.

[Nooska]

I'll quickly ammend that - pre 30 %, and some of it at 20 %

[bldavis]

I think any guild who brings pugs to their main run must be either desperate or very irresponsible.
Usually it's better to raid with 23 than to bring pugs.

we are a 10 man guild, and at the time we were having enough issue with 10 ppl

sorry but in 10 man, you lose a larger percentage of dps when you are missing someone, so maybe in 25 man it is ok to raid without pugs if someone is missing

[Skye1013]

That and we proved to ourselves that we can't even handle 8 man Firelands (with a realID/guild group.)

[Jaitee]

...so, what? People in non-raiding guilds can't get pugged into runs where a raiding guild might be short a slot or two?

/asplode

I think any guild who brings pugs to their main run must be either desperate or very irresponsible.
Usually it's better to raid with 23 than to bring pugs.

my guild has taken the risk a few times in grabbing a pug generally there isnt anything they can can do to make the fight harder then having an empty slot and we actually got our current resto shammy from needing to pug a dps one day and he came on one of his many alts got along great with the guild so we started inviting him back even when we didnt need a pug and eventually got him into the guild!