Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

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Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby econ21 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:13 am

Looking at my tankadin in 5.0.4, I am starting to feel like I did when I first started to play my blood DK alt: I have so many CDs, I don't know what to do. How should we use them? Here's what I am thinking so far:


Use as part of your rotation - use these almost on CD.

Shield of the Righteousness - generally use it for physical damage reduction as soon as you get 5 Holy Power; you might delay it slightly if you know a big hit is coming, but the HoPo generation is rapid enough that it would be wasteful to delay long. You could use it on 3 HoPo if needed, but having 5 HoPo gives you more flexibility to use two in short succession.

Sacred Shield - I presume you just press this (and HotR for Weakened Blows) every 30 seconds? Both annoyingly maintainency but what can you do?

Diving Protection (glyphed) - use it almost on cooldown; 20% seems too small and the 1minute CD too rapid to save it up.


Save for heavy damage phases - with these, don't wait for low health (it might be too late) but use them proactively.

Divine Protection (unglyphed) - use as a mini-version of DK's Anti-Magic Zone for big magic bursts (Zon'ozz's magic attack or high stacks on Yorshaj).

On use trinkets - for example, extra dodge or strength (for parry) on use.

Holy Avenger (if talented) - use it either to ShotR a lot during a heavy damage phase as a mini-Guardian of Ancient Kings. [Alternatively, use it to WoG a lot in emergency if you need major healing as close to a staggered lay on hands].

Avenging Wrath - there is a case for always synchronising this with Holy Avenger, so that your ShotRs do more dps or your WoGs heal more.

Guardian of Ancient Kings - if you have HA, it's probably better to stagger the two, so you use HA first, then GoAK.


Panic buttons - use reactively, when your health dips precariously

Word of Glory - use instead of ShotR for magic damage or reactively if your health has dipped a lot and you need a big heal fast; contrary to HoPo/ShotR, there is a case for banking your Bastion of Glory stacks and only using WoG when you really need to. Combine with HA and AW for a burst of very strong self-healing.

Lay on Hands - use when on very low health

Ardent Defender - last resort; use when on low health, if the next hit might kill you.


Is the above roughly right?
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Treck » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:17 pm

Sacred shield is awesome, I dont see it as maintenance at all.
It also scales with vengeance, so you wanna recast when your vengeance is high, not to mention refreshing it right after a shield has been bursted for more effective uptime.
Since Shield of the Righteous is off GCD you can use the GCD right before a big burst to refresh SS (to make sure its absorbing at the desired time) and use SotR aswell.

As for Divine Protection, I personally use it when I know im going to have a bit lower uptime of SotR, but since SotR takes care of SOOOO much damage when its physical, its a great choise to be able to have it glyphed for multiple fights.

Avenging Wrath has a 3min CD while Holy Avenger has 2, I wouldnt recommend waiting with HA just to do more damage, its an insane cooldown for survival.

GoAK is either for high spelldmg bursts, or when you really dont wanna freaking die, no physical fight will do anything remotely dangerous when guardian is up and you got HPs to use on SotR.


I find myself staring at the healthbar a LOT more in MoP than i ever did in cataclysm, our survival is truly reactive, and you will make a big differance if you play it right, so putting the pressure on the tanks to be able to do so much damage as well, is imo not good design cause it makes it harder for new players to get into the role.
But thats just what I think.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby darkjedioverlord » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:44 am

I'm still learning how to tank and find all of the cooldowns a bit daunting. Is there any I can macro and forget while I'm working on remembering to use others or am I going about it the wrong way? On that note, any tips on learning to use them properly? I thought maybe doing content I'm over-geared for so that I've got more of a cushion, but I feel like I'm still struggling to settle on a basic rotation. Perhaps that's part of it... run easy content until my rotation/regular ability usage is solid and then start trying to weave in cooldowns... Any help would be welcome, though.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Koatanga » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:20 pm

I do not recommend this for boss encounters or anything non-trivial. But for simply cruising around crushing things while you watch reruns of Firefly, here are a couple of macros:

I put this one on my #1 key

#showtooltip
/startattack
/castsequence reset=6 Hammer of the Righteous, Judgment, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Sacred Shield, Judgment, Hammer of the Righteous, Consecration, judgment, Hammer of the Righteous


this one to my #2 key:

#showtooltip
/startattack
/castsequence reset=6 Hammer of the Righteous, Judgment, Consecration, Crusader Strike, Sacred Shield, Judgment, Crusader Strike, Consecration, judgment, Crusader Strike

And this one to my #3 key

#showtooltip Avenger's shield
/cast Shield of the Righteous
/cast Avenger's Shield


For multi-target, I spam #1 and #3. For single target, I spam #2 and #3.

For anything serious, when I actually need to time when to use mitigation, I go manual. But for 90% of stuff, those macros will get you by.

Because you are spamming #3 all of the time, it will use AS on proc and it will use Shield of the Righteous whenever you have 3 stacks of HP. You can't use this and bank 5 stacks of HP.

Once again, these are "coast mode" macros, not for 100% use.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:42 pm

Macros #1 and #2 will both run into an issue with Judgement. You have:

H-J-C-H-S-J-H-C-J-H

That last Judgment won't be off cooldown yet. Hence the CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X- repeat pattern.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby econ21 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:28 pm

darkjedioverlord wrote:On that note, any tips on learning to use them properly?


I find setting up auras for cool downs and perhaps aspects of your rotation a big help in learning a class. The most important is some kind of sound effect to notify me when I have enough resource to use my big finisher(s) - say 5 HoPo for a ShotR with a paladin. But I also array my survival CDs in close view, so I can make sure I don't sit on them too long (there's a case for reserving some, but a danger of under-utilising them).

You could try using Theckhd's weakaura strings:

http://sacredduty.net/2012/08/29/tankad ... -4-update/

They are fine as is, but also are nice to work from if you want to make changes. (They helped me make the switch from power auras to weak auras, so I could set things up for my warrior, DK and bear tanks.)
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:30 pm

theckhd wrote:Macros #1 and #2 will both run into an issue with Judgement. You have:

H-J-C-H-S-J-H-C-J-H

That last Judgment won't be off cooldown yet. Hence the CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X- repeat pattern.

Also, the first two macros have all fillers covered, so you'd run into trouble trying to get Avenger's Shield in there. Either it'd never go off because of GCD, or if it did it'd push back a CS/HotR.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Lionnis » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:45 pm

WoG is replaced for us with Eternal Flame, the stack that improves it's heal it's quite nice, sort of a build up cooldown. Not sure which is better Sacred shield or Eternal Flame with 5 stack. Also not sure how i feel about being able to put cons down where i want it, but so far it's fun.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Koatanga » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:19 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:
theckhd wrote:Macros #1 and #2 will both run into an issue with Judgement. You have:

H-J-C-H-S-J-H-C-J-H

That last Judgment won't be off cooldown yet. Hence the CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X- repeat pattern.

Also, the first two macros have all fillers covered, so you'd run into trouble trying to get Avenger's Shield in there. Either it'd never go off because of GCD, or if it did it'd push back a CS/HotR.

In reality it pushes CS back, which in turn pushes SotR due to HP gen. It's not perfect as I tried to stress. It's just for coasting on content that doesn't require you to be on top of every cooldown. If you aren't doing LFR with a bunch of mouth-breathing retards to gear your alt, then by all means run a manual rotation, as I also suggested.

But for a guy who doesn't have a good grasp on tanking, I figured they could be useful. Feel free to suggest better ones.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Koatanga » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:25 pm

Lionnis wrote:WoG is replaced for us with Eternal Flame, the stack that improves it's heal it's quite nice, sort of a build up cooldown. Not sure which is better Sacred shield or Eternal Flame with 5 stack. Also not sure how i feel about being able to put cons down where i want it, but so far it's fun.

Because the macro is basically for brain-dead tanking, the assumption is that you outgear the content and your health is not in danger, so SotR is the choice over WoG.

I would not consider using the place-able consecration with those macros. Only use them with the version you don't need to place.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:28 pm

econ21 wrote:They are fine as is, but also are nice to work from if you want to make changes. (They helped me make the switch from power auras to weak auras, so I could set things up for my warrior, DK and bear tanks.)

I actually have fully-functional WA setups for DK (Blood and Unholy), Warrior (Prot and Fury), and Bear (Guardian). If it would be helpful, maybe I'll dump them all in a blog post tomorrow?
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:33 pm

Koatanga wrote:But for a guy who doesn't have a good grasp on tanking, I figured they could be useful. Feel free to suggest better ones.

All I would suggest is getting rid of that last HotR and J and replacing the second Cons with Holy Wrath (because it will also clash).

HotR-J-Cons-HotR-SS-J-HotR-HW-

That leaves one GCD for throwing an AS in manually if one desires, but otherwise you could spam that one macro (worst case, that last GCD ends up empty).
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Koatanga » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:33 pm

<post deleted> nm, found the problem.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby econ21 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:04 am

theckhd wrote:I actually have fully-functional WA setups for DK (Blood and Unholy), Warrior (Prot and Fury), and Bear (Guardian). If it would be helpful, maybe I'll dump them all in a blog post tomorrow?


That would be great. Casually googling, it seems hard to find Weak Aura strings. I found many Power Aura strings pre-5.0.4, but your tankadin weak aura strings are all I've found post-5.04. It's early days, of course, but that's when this kind of thing is most useful.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Treck » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:56 am

Lionnis wrote:WoG is replaced for us with Eternal Flame, the stack that improves it's heal it's quite nice, sort of a build up cooldown. Not sure which is better Sacred shield or Eternal Flame with 5 stack. Also not sure how i feel about being able to put cons down where i want it, but so far it's fun.

SS wins over EF tbh.
SS is an absorb and thats always better than effective healing.
Also EF doesnt care about the 5stacks except for the initial heal, and it behaves just like WoG, so yes the initial heal will be big but so would a normal WoG, and the HoT is just pretty damn useless in a 25man raid.
The EF hot scales with vengeance, so the more dmg you take the bigger it will be, but SS also scales, so it will always be superior.

And about consecration, I really dislike the glyph, and I see no point in it atm.
The glyph would have been nice when putting down consecration was a big decision, aka much longer CD than duration.
Now that it is spamable, if a consecration is in the wrong place, you just wait for the CD to finish soon again anyway, not to mention it fucks up my rotation having to click it where I want to have it every time i put it down but thats just something you get used to.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:44 am

Treck wrote:not to mention it fucks up my rotation having to click it where I want to have it every time i put it down but thats just something you get used to.

That's actually my biggest complaint about the glyph too. I've always felt the targeting mechanism in this game was awkward, though it's gotten better with spell queuing. But it just breaks up my rhythm to have to click twice to get Cons to cast.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby daishan » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:06 am

I have Cons bound to my naga, if I end up using the glyph a lot I'll be making a macro with the Razer software, ToS be damned.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby econ21 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:46 pm

Treck wrote:Sacred shield is awesome, I dont see it as maintenance at all.


You are right. It's my favorite change for us in 5.0.4. It almost feels like we are spoiled - it's like we have a third form of active mitigation to use on very short CDs, whereas other classes just have two.

EDIT: too late! It seems like Blizzard realised it was a little too good and now it's been hotfixed, so the first tick comes after 6s.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby xstratax » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:28 pm

I will note, regarding EF, because it replaces WoG you do not need to change your macros, it just casts EF any place you have WoG being cast. I tested this on Beta with a '/cast !Word of Glory' macro but EF talented.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Sanctity » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:43 am

The tier 4 talent Unbreakable spirit reduces the cooldowns of Divine Protection and Lay on Hands. I, like econ, use DP on CD with glyph and with unbreakable spirit I've found the CD to land around 45 seconds meaning ~22% uptime. Obviously this is flexable based on if you're spamming SotR every CD or saving it for big hits. If Holy Avenger is used that will also cut a few more seconds off the CD. Worth noting at least.

Lay on Hands has a CD long enough that it always receives the full 50% CD reduction but that's not nearly so useful.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Fetzie » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:01 pm

It means that LoH is ready for every boss try though, which can be quite useful.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby theckhd » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:25 pm

Pyrea wrote:It means that LoH is ready for every boss try though, which can be quite useful.

It turns it from a "once-per-fight" cooldown into a potential "two-per-fight" cooldown, which is pretty big on long (i.e. end boss) encounters.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby daishan » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:26 pm

I can't find it now but a week or 2 back they said all CD's 5 min and longer would be reset on a raid wipe, except reincarnation.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby Hespherus » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:55 am

Yes, ive read that too. Still, LoH could be usable twice on some encounters, which is still pretty important.
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Re: Cool down usage in MoP (aka Active Mitigation)

Postby daishan » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:07 am

Yep, I'll be taking unbreakable spirit most of the time, a boss would have to have a very painful DoT or a mechanic that can be abused with clemency for me not to take it.
2 LoH on many fights and possibly a 3rd on epic end bosses, yummy :D
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