A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
when using warrior 85 beta dodge data:
That gave me the feeling k was still 0.956. So with k fixed:
Parry with k = 0.956
 Code: Select all
d2_try1_fit =
General model:
d2_try1_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+k./x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
C = 88.64 (86.4, 90.87)
k = 0.9541 (0.9524, 0.9558)
d2_try1_gof =
sse: 7.1744e05
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 9
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.0028
That gave me the feeling k was still 0.956. So with k fixed:
 Code: Select all
d2_try2_fit =
General model:
d2_try2_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+0.956./x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
C = 91.09 (90.31, 91.86)
d2_try2_gof =
sse: 1.2137e04
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 10
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.0035
Parry with k = 0.956
 Code: Select all
p1_try3_fit =
General model:
p1_try3_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+0.956./(x./243.7))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
C = 238.7 (238.5, 239)
p1_try3_gof =
sse: 1.3492e05
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 14
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 9.8169e04
 mythor
 Posts: 24
 Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 pm
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
mythor wrote:Playing around with matlab files provided by Theck I find the following for 85 prot war to make the results fit:
 Code: Select all
k = 0.956
Cp = 238.7
Cd = 91
k still seems to be the cataclysm value. Cp is not that far off but Cd seems to be pretty different. I think I need more data. Is there more warrior data available somewhere?
Just took some of my own data on beta with a L85 premade warrior:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=4
Confirmed that your dodge formula is different, and still using the cataclysm k coefficient:
 Code: Select all
General model:
f(x) = 1/(1/C+0.956/x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
C = 91.57 (91.06, 92.07)
Goodness of fit:
SSE: 0.0001821
Rsquare: 1
Adjusted Rsquare: 1
RMSE: 0.003606
Parry data shows the same k discrepancy, given the known value of str>parry conversion factor. It's not clear if the parry cap is subtly different than the paladin one, or if we're just limited by noise and a small data set.
 Code: Select all
General model:
f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+k/(x/243.9+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
C = 238.4 (236.8, 239.9)
k = 0.9556 (0.9551, 0.9562)
Goodness of fit:
SSE: 0.0001639
Rsquare: 1
Adjusted Rsquare: 1
RMSE: 0.003551
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7850
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
theckhd wrote:Parry data is giving me:
 Code: Select all
General model:
f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/a+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
C = 237.2 (234, 240.4)
a = 243.8 (243.3, 244.3)
Goodness of fit:
SSE: 0.0546
Rsquare: 1
Adjusted Rsquare: 1
RMSE: 0.03649
That doesn't really narrow down C much better than our earlier data sets though. If we knew a exactly that would help  didn't GC give us that number?
Not sure when they'll be shutting down the beta (assuming tuesday), but I can try to get some more data, if you think it'll help. Not sure what kind of spread I can get, or if you have a particular area that's poorly fit I can try to construct sets with numbers in that range.
 benebarba
 Posts: 2469
 Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
sept 11, if I recall correctly
The Element of Forum Hyperbole

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Flüttershy  Draenei Protection Paladin, Aerie Peak
Klaudandus  BE Protection Paladin, Feathermoon (Semiretired)

Klaudandus  Posts: 11110
 Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 am
 Location: Texas' Armpit
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Klaudandus wrote:sept 11, if I recall correctly
That is indeed the date they've announced as their expected shutdown (subject to change)

Nooska  Posts: 1516
 Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
benebarba wrote:theckhd wrote:Parry data is giving me:
 Code: Select all
General model:
f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/a+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
C = 237.2 (234, 240.4)
a = 243.8 (243.3, 244.3)
Goodness of fit:
SSE: 0.0546
Rsquare: 1
Adjusted Rsquare: 1
RMSE: 0.03649
That doesn't really narrow down C much better than our earlier data sets though. If we knew a exactly that would help  didn't GC give us that number?
Not sure when they'll be shutting down the beta (assuming tuesday), but I can try to get some more data, if you think it'll help. Not sure what kind of spread I can get, or if you have a particular area that's poorly fit I can try to construct sets with numbers in that range.
The more data at the extremes, the better. Here's the surface fit plot I have right now:
The places for improvement would be:
1) high parry rating, low str (i.e. 9%+ parry from rating, <2k str, maybe holy gear reforged/gemmed for parry)  basically to fill out the predrparry axis
2) high parry rating, increasing STR (i.e. take the above gear set and start swapping in prot/ret pieces)  fills out the last side of the square
3) push for maximum parry  get as much highparry, highstr gear as possible to try and push your overall parry% as high as possible. This could include using the Deathwing stacking STR trinket and parry onuse trinkets. I may try and do a little of this today, if I can find a parry onuse trinket.
4) fill in more data points in the center  not as useful, but every little bit helps
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7850
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
My googlefu is failing me this morning... Can anyone find the blue post that gave us the exact STR>Parry conversion at L85? Or am I misremembering, and there was never such a post?
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7850
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
theckhd wrote:My googlefu is failing me this morning... Can anyone find the blue post that gave us the exact STR>Parry conversion at L85? Or am I misremembering, and there was never such a post?
I'm only finding the 4.2 change to 27% (up from 25) of strength to parry rating.
 benebarba
 Posts: 2469
 Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Level 85 Draenei Paladin premade
Holy Gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 165
Mastery: 1139 (+6.35%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 1839 rating, 11.26%
Block: 27.62%
Half Holy half Prot gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 1738
Mastery: 1112 (+6.20%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 547 rating, 7.26%
Parry: 2643 rating, 20.87%
Block: 27.62%
Adding in some Ret gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 2760
Mastery: 921 (+5.14%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 623 rating, 7.56%
Parry: 2549 rating, 24.54%
Block: 26.50%
More Ret gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 3461
Mastery: 1260 (+7.03%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 920 rating, 8.71%
Parry: 2587 rating, 27.34%
Block: 28.25%
Ret/Prot gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 4234
Mastery: 1146 (+6.39%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 920 rating, 8.71%
Parry: 2594 rating, 30.23%
Block: 27.66%
<edit> I was going to copy my Pally over again so I could have it at level 85 with all the DS hm gear but the character copy looks to be broken atm.
Want we to use the level 86 copy I have already for the high strength gear sets or will doing it with a Level 86 just make it over complicated?
Holy Gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 165
Mastery: 1139 (+6.35%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 1839 rating, 11.26%
Block: 27.62%
Half Holy half Prot gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 1738
Mastery: 1112 (+6.20%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 547 rating, 7.26%
Parry: 2643 rating, 20.87%
Block: 27.62%
Adding in some Ret gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 2760
Mastery: 921 (+5.14%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 623 rating, 7.56%
Parry: 2549 rating, 24.54%
Block: 26.50%
More Ret gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 3461
Mastery: 1260 (+7.03%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 920 rating, 8.71%
Parry: 2587 rating, 27.34%
Block: 28.25%
Ret/Prot gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 4234
Mastery: 1146 (+6.39%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 920 rating, 8.71%
Parry: 2594 rating, 30.23%
Block: 27.66%
<edit> I was going to copy my Pally over again so I could have it at level 85 with all the DS hm gear but the character copy looks to be broken atm.
Want we to use the level 86 copy I have already for the high strength gear sets or will doing it with a Level 86 just make it over complicated?
Daishan of <Nidor Amo Nex>
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett

daishan  Maintankadonor
 Posts: 551
 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:04 pm
 Location: UK
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
daishan wrote:<edit> I was going to copy my Pally over again so I could have it at level 85 with all the DS hm gear but the character copy looks to be broken atm.
Want we to use the level 86 copy I have already for the high strength gear sets or will doing it with a Level 86 just make it over complicated?
Can't use 86 data  the STR>Parry conversion will be different, and I don't know the ratio.
Could you give me the naked info for that Dranei paladin though?
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7850
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
While you're at it with that Holy set (which I assume has a lot of haste), could you spec EF and take a quick log of a couple EF casts with high haste? I don't think the tick interval is affected by spell haste, but I don't know that I've seen a confirmation of that either way.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7850
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
Level 85 Draenei Paladin premade
Naked
Strength: 165
Mastery: 0 (+0.00%)
Stam: 179
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 0 rating, 3.68%
Block: 21.52%
<edit>
EF Logs http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rts ... details/3/
1st and 2nd EF casts with zero haste on gear 3rd and 4th EF casts with 2326 (+18.16%) haste
According to the in game tooltip that much haste reduces the tick interval to 2.54 sec.
Naked
Strength: 165
Mastery: 0 (+0.00%)
Stam: 179
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 0 rating, 3.68%
Block: 21.52%
<edit>
EF Logs http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rts ... details/3/
1st and 2nd EF casts with zero haste on gear 3rd and 4th EF casts with 2326 (+18.16%) haste
According to the in game tooltip that much haste reduces the tick interval to 2.54 sec.
Daishan of <Nidor Amo Nex>
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett
"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it."  Terry Pratchett

daishan  Maintankadonor
 Posts: 551
 Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:04 pm
 Location: UK
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
moar dataz!
human 85 protection pally, Holy gear (no strength)
Strength: 164
Parry: 301 rating, 4.95%
Parry: 538 rating, 5.94%
Parry: 733 rating, 6.75%
Parry: 953 rating, 7.66%
Parry: 1014 rating, 7.91%
Parry: 1455 rating, 9.71%
Adding strength+parry pieces:
Str: 737, Parry: 1609 rating, 12.81%
Str: 1451, Parry: 1923 rating, 17.03%
Str: 1964, Parry: 2056 rating, 19.62%
I'll add more as I get it
human 85 protection pally, Holy gear (no strength)
Strength: 164
Parry: 301 rating, 4.95%
Parry: 538 rating, 5.94%
Parry: 733 rating, 6.75%
Parry: 953 rating, 7.66%
Parry: 1014 rating, 7.91%
Parry: 1455 rating, 9.71%
Adding strength+parry pieces:
Str: 737, Parry: 1609 rating, 12.81%
Str: 1451, Parry: 1923 rating, 17.03%
Str: 1964, Parry: 2056 rating, 19.62%
I'll add more as I get it
 benebarba
 Posts: 2469
 Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
With the new data points, along with the exact str>parry conversion ratio at L85 (243.6), this is what the fit looks like:
So our best estimate of the parry cap Cp is 236.1 +/ 0.7
 Code: Select all
General model:
f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/243.6+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
C = 236.1 (235.4, 236.8)
Goodness of fit:
SSE: 0.07522
Rsquare: 1
Adjusted Rsquare: 1
RMSE: 0.03483
So our best estimate of the parry cap Cp is 236.1 +/ 0.7
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: A Call to Arms  MoP Mechanics Testing
After plugging in some more data from a level 85 warrior from beta:
Cp_paladin and Cp_warrior are so close I want them to be the same. After 5.0.4 hits EU I'll use a fresh dataset to confirm these findings.
 Code: Select all
General model:
dodge_fit(x) = 1 / (1 / Cd + 0.956 / x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
Cd = 91.42 (91.01, 91.83)
dodge_fit_GoF =
sse: 3.1974e04
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 24
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 0.0037
 Code: Select all
General model:
parry_fit(x) = 1 / (1 / Cp + 0.956 / (x / 243.6))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
Cp = 237.1 (237.1, 237.2)
parry_fit_GoF =
sse: 1.5810e06
rsquare: 1.0000
dfe: 14
adjrsquare: 1.0000
rmse: 3.3604e04
Cp_paladin and Cp_warrior are so close I want them to be the same. After 5.0.4 hits EU I'll use a fresh dataset to confirm these findings.
 mythor
 Posts: 24
 Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 pm
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